USA Pilot Pay Restored

[clansinclair]

got to keep the t-bird!!! ha!

got to admit i was worried at first, but i got to keep the t-bird after all.

decided that bitching about the paycut wasn't going to make the payments. realized that quitting my job was no answer either because if the "grass is greener" elsewhere it's because there's more fertilizer there.

so i re-financed my home, re-structured my debt, and got a part-time job. guess what? it worked! now that the pay has been restored to normal, i'm in better shape than ever!!!

i did all this without paying union dues and enduring picket lines, etc.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

so i re-financed my home, re-structured my debt, and got a part-time job. guess what? it worked!

i did all this without paying union dues and enduring picket lines, etc.

Dumb labor unions, demanding that management pay its workers fairly. Lets all just refinance our houses and get part-time jobs. That will show management who is boss. I wonder why ALPA didnt think of that. Stupid union.

 

[Sameold]

If I am not careful with what I post, I think I will be accused of being willowrunvortex. I wouldn't want to insult him like that. However, I couldn't have said it any better myself than he did in the post above.

I like to change clansinclairs post to read like this: "so the company re-financed, re-structured its debt, and diversified. guess what? it worked! now that the stability has been restored at the company, we don't have to keep afloat off the backs of our employees. That is what we in management are paid the big bucks to do!!!"

Also, please keep using the word acumen in your posts.

Quite frankly after catching up on all these USAJ posts, reading all of pilotyips various threads praising various managements and downing organized labor. Wondering when I will be challenged to a karate fight, or a "come to jesus" meeting with the USAJ team. I am hanging it up and going back to lurker status. Maybe one of these people that are leaving USAJ will throw those willing to catch it, a life line to drag them along to smoother seas (I didn't want to use the greener pastures analogy.)

I, like Brent (who by the way has shown great restraint to not post another well worded comeback and truely made his "final post",) will call this my final post because things aren't going to change at USAJ. Things will continue on at break point until too many pilots bail, then they will make things better to help attract newbies, but just as they giveth it will be taken away and continue the track record (remember extended layover pay? I do.) I will hang up my cleats of the mind and abandon the playing field, at least for a while. I will leave you with a quote I gave pilotyip when he was concerned with trying to find out who I was in a pm.

And for anonymity... THIS IS YOUR BED SO LIE IN IT!!! When you have no protections at a work place, people are rewarded for positions they take at the work place that are pro-management you kill the arena of free flow of info and exchanges of ideas and thoughts... so I guess that would be one good thing that could come from a union. Instead, you will only hear from the a$$ kissers, and get a much watered down version from dissenters.

Looking back at that pm, pilotyip was dead on about pay returning (at least temporarily) in a month. I should give a call for that beer he promised me. To the rest of you, see you on the road! On to some much needed days off!

 

[clansinclair]

Union? Yes or No?

This is only my opinion, and I acknowledge that I DON'T have all the data to back up my opinion. I base my opinion solely upon my own personal experience with unions and my casual observation over some 20+ years.

Unions cannot protect your job. How many unionized airlines no longer exist because their cost structure was prohibitively high, and the unions representing the labor force refused to help management adjust to changing market conditions by negotiating fair cost reduction measures? It seems like they'd rather strike a company out of business than negotiate reasonable and fair consessions.

Now, I'm quite sure that "mangement" has a lot of house cleaning to do in this department too. They need to stop paying outrageous salaries and bonuses to themselves when the "chips are down". They also need to negotiate in good faith and not build a "cash war chest" with the aim of busting the unions, but rather realize that their "workforce" is their MOST valuable company asset! This "us against them"/"master vs. slave" mentality is arcane, inappropriate, and has no place in dealing with today's highly educated and technically proficient workforce.

Unions spend a lot of valuable "company time" and "company money" protecting the jobs of those who deserve to be fired!!! I have seen this first-hand!!! If the unions would discipline their rank and file to be efficient and productive by putting pressure on their "brothers" who constantly push the "abuse envelope" instead of turning a blind eye to their costly tactics, rather than going to bat for them, at all company cost, when they get caught "red-handed", they could "raise the bar " of performance instead of "dumbing down" everyone else to the lowest common denominator!

Management needs to do their part too! Quit paying "top dollar" for those jerk-offs who know how to "pose", spit out the "boardroom" rhetoric, do the "tribal management soft-shoe" in company meetings, but DON'T respect their empolyees and CAN'T get along with the workforce because they're too busy feeding their egos, maintaining their professional facades, and focusing solely on their own personal agendas! I've seen that first-hand too! Those types can never lead the company to profitable results! Quit handing out "golden parachute clauses" to the self-proclaimed "geniuses" who can't produce the results you expected of them when you hired them! Give them the same "boot-in-the-ass" you'd give anyother employee when they don't perform as expected!!!

A union shop steward once told me this during a contract renewal process when I was part of the "rank and file". He said, "We don't want to break their balls, Don. We just want to sqeeze them til they start sweating!" This "more, more, always more!" mentality of unions has to stop! It ultimately costs their membership jobs rather than producing them! We all know that "management" would be slave-drivers if they could get away with it, but the union mentality of "how can I get more for doing less" is just as bad!

So finally as to the question of "union, yes or no?" I say show me a "good union" that has a proven record of serving their membership, that isn't led by a bunch of uneducated "red neck yahoos" that only know how to agitate rather than co-operate, can give me a replacement job of equal or better salary when the result of their call for a strike results in the company going out of business altogether, a union who'll pay my full salary and benefits while I'm on the strike they called for, a union that won't do the things I mentioned above, and I'll join it and vote for it. I've never heard nor seen one of those kind of unions. So frankly, I'll take my chances depending on myself, my work ethic, my talent, and my own initiative!!!

 

[WillowRunVortex]

This is only my opinion, and I acknowledge that I DON'T have all the data to back up my opinion. I base my opinion solely upon my own personal experience with unions and my casual observation over some 20+ years.

Unions cannot protect your job. How many unionized airlines no longer exist because their cost structure was prohibitively high, and the unions representing the labor force refused to help management adjust to changing market conditions by negotiating fair cost reduction measures? It seems like they'd rather strike a company out of business than negotiate reasonable and fair consessions.

Now, I'm quite sure that "mangement" has a lot of house cleaning to do in this department too. They need to stop paying outrageous salaries and bonuses to themselves when the "chips are down". They also need to negotiate in good faith and not build a "cash war chest" with the aim of busting the unions, but rather realize that their "workforce" is their MOST valuable company asset! This "us against them"/"master vs. slave" mentality is arcane, inappropriate, and has no place in dealing with today's highly educated and technically proficient workforce.

Unions spend a lot of valuable "company time" and "company money" protecting the jobs of those who deserve to be fired!!! I have seen this first-hand!!! If the unions would discipline their rank and file to be efficient and productive by putting pressure on their "brothers" who constantly push the "abuse envelope" instead of turning a blind eye to their costly tactics, rather than going to bat for them, at all company cost, when they get caught "red-handed", they could "raise the bar " of performance instead of "dumbing down" everyone else to the lowest common denominator!

Management needs to do their part too! Quit paying "top dollar" for those jerk-offs who know how to "pose", spit out the "boardroom" rhetoric, do the "tribal management soft-shoe" in company meetings, but DON'T respect their empolyees and CAN'T get along with the workforce because they're too busy feeding their egos, maintaining their professional facades, and focusing solely on their own personal agendas! I've seen that first-hand too! Those types can never lead the company to profitable results! Quit handing out "golden parachute clauses" to the self-proclaimed "geniuses" who can't produce the results you expected of them when you hired them! Give them the same "boot-in-the-ass" you'd give anyother employee when they don't perform as expected!!!

A union shop steward once told me this during a contract renewal process when I was part of the "rank and file". He said, "We don't want to break their balls, Don. We just want to sqeeze them til they start sweating!" This "more, more, always more!" mentality of unions has to stop! It ultimately costs their membership jobs rather than producing them! We all know that "management" would be slave-drivers if they could get away with it, but the union mentality of "how can I get more for doing less" is just as bad!

So finally as to the question of "union, yes or no?" I say show me a "good union" that has a proven record of serving their membership, that isn't led by a bunch of uneducated "red neck yahoos" that only know how to agitate rather than co-operate, can give me a replacement job of equal or better salary when the result of their call for a strike results in the company going out of business altogether, a union who'll pay my full salary and benefits while I'm on the strike they called for, a union that won't do the things I mentioned above, and I'll join it and vote for it. I've never heard nor seen one of those kind of unions. So frankly, I'll take my chances depending on myself, my work ethic, my talent, and my own initiative!!!

Hey, clansinclair,

I didnt read your whole post, but I'm pretty sure I know exactly what it says.

Answer yourself this question. How many managers at USA have refinanced their homes or have gotten part-time jobs? It is time for your pilot group to sack-up and inform management of a few things.

 

[clansinclair]

Just so you know, I have "sacked up" and let management know how I feel about more than a few things. In fact, I'd like to know when all the rest of my fellow USAJ pilots are going to "sack up" at the business meetings and pilot meetings, speak their minds, and let management know a few things, instead of getting on this web site in anonymity, and crying like a bunch of little girls!

As far as your question, probably none of the managers have had to do what I've done to make ends meet. They probably make more than I do, manage their money better, and probably do many things different than I do. Which probably explains why they're management and I'm not. So, what's your point? Are you trying to imply that the owners, investors, and management do not share the "downside" equitably when the business is slow? If so, what data do you base your premise on? Furthermore, just to play "devils advocate", why should they share the downside equitably? Compare your risk/investment ratio to theirs, and see if you can justify logically your premise.

I use to own my own business, and I can recall a few times when my family and I went without paying ourselves just to make payroll. That's one of many reasons I don't ever want to own my own business again, that is unless I somehow become filthy rich and can afford to lose a few hundred thousand dollars at a time to be able to "cash in" on the big bucks when the business cycles really payoff.

It never ceases to amaze me how all you "broke-dick" geniuses think that all those "management types" are smart enough to accumulate their "wealth", but aren't smart enough to manage it. Can you explain that one to me? As I've said before, if you got all the answers, go start your own company and treat your employees just like you think our employers should treat us.

Now, I think it's healthy to debate constructively the merits of differing philosophies, management styles, business decisions, etc., but in the end you've got to remember "the golden rule". The guy with the gold makes the rules, and as long as we stay addicted to flying and willing to cut each others' throat for a job, the owners/managers are going to continue to have an edge on us. The principle of supply and demand will dictate our wages, QOL, working conditions, etc.

I just think it's more constructive to work within the system and with management, than it is to create a unionized institution that is counter-productive, inefficient, and un-profitable. Unless a union can do the things I spoke of in my previous posting, I personally have no interest in starting one at USAJ. I'm not trying to say that I'm right and you're wrong. I'm just stating my position and why I feel the way I do, that's all.

 

[pilotyip]

The highest paid group in the ops Dept is the pilots. The highest paid pilot makes more than the highest paid ops management type. The two highest paid pilots make more than the two highest paid ops management types. etc. In fact I would guess our DC-9 Capts average higher pay than average ops management. If management is such a great job, come over and tell someone you want to work 8-5, 5 days a week and become managment.

 

[Batfish]

hiring?

is usa jet hiring or does the jsfirm ad just run all of the time?

 

[falcon20driver]

Probably interviewing, they have a new add on climbto350 today also.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

USA Jet is now interviewing, for a class and/or a pool.

If you're interested, contact Pilotyip.

Cliff
YIP
PS-PM me if you want any more info.