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US Military Cargo Outsourcing..Unbelievable!!!

spitfire1500

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All our AMC carriers seem to be furloughing (Kalitta, Evergreen and Atlas rumored) while others like Tradewinds and Gemini went under. I've been spending a lot of time around Charleston AFB and have spoken with some customs agents. The bulk of the freight out of there lately is being flown by freakin' Russians and their Antonovs. Un F'in believable what the hell.... our own carriers are dying over here and our military cargo payments are going to Russians!! When I got hired by an AMC carrier I was told I had to have a US passport!!! I'm sure all the Antonov crews are true blue American patriots with US passports......not!! Anyone who has been furloughed should be pretty pissed. I have already sent a letter to my Congressman (don't know what good it will do). Those airplanes sholudn;t be on a USAF base let alone flying our cargo. One customs agent I spoke with was astounded that this was going on.
 

mxer

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Just another sign of how the US brings on some of its own problems. During the good economic times, people laugh at anyone that pushes "buy American". Look at all the foreign cars and all the outsourcing. Politically correct BS towards migrant workers, outsourcing, supporting foreign products in our country. We bring an awful lot of this on ourselves. Why do US based airlines buy planes like the Airbus when Boeing is right here. I know, simplistic view and global economy. Seems like we need to take care of our own first, then go outsourcing and supporting other countries. I was in Tokyo recently, not a single F150 to be found.
 

OrionFE

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Stop all Foreign Aide until we get our own feet on the ground!
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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At the same time, Americans are calling for foreign investments and ownership of US Airlines. The use of Antonov jets to fly cargo out of CHS is simply testing the waters to go fully Corporate and negate sovereignty and loyalty to the US Constitution and its citizens (you and I). By electing Bush and installing CEO's like Cheney and Rumsfeld, who do we think we were really getting...??

One of the reasons to keep US Airlines controlled by US entities is CRAF. When America goes to war it needs aircraft readily available....

Well, US Corporations like United, Delta and FedEx never claimed to be loyal citizens of the United States, especially in the 21st Century. Is there anything in the constitution that binds a US Corporate Citizen such as UPS?

Why is Haliburtons Corporate HQ in Dubai?

And don't forget cabatoge, in action, through Ted Stevens Int'l airport in AK, brought to you by who else? Convicted Senator Ted Stevens... the camels nose has been under the tent....

Globalization has no sovereignty. While we are all going after instant gratification of the dollar, we are selling out our citizenship......


I have already sent a letter to my Congressman (don't know what good it will do).
That is a good start... however, representation on CapHill to counter the powerful Corporate lobby and their PACs is in order....

What would you rather be, if you had to choose? Or said another way, which is more important? Being a kick a$$ consumer or being an American?
 
Last edited:

Be 23

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That is a good start... however, representation on CapHill to counter the powerful Corporate lobby and their PACs is in order....

So you think the powerful corporate lobby is behind the DoD outsourcing to the lowest bidder, even if it's foreign?

I think AMC is trying to move the most cargo as cheap as it can. Clearly they're not running a jobs program or providing corporate welfare to US corporations.

Also, it really is nothing new. I January '02 I was at Kandahar airport in Afghanistan for a few weeks. The only people flying cargo into that airport during the day were flying Antonov's. I'm sure it was because they had some technical difficulty flying to unlit runways at night, but they were there.

Also in the nothing new department, Halliburton's KBR began providing support services to the DoD in austere locations during the Clinton administration in the former Yugoslavia. It shouldn't be surprising that an oil field support company moved to the oil fields, especially without Dick Cheney around to to ensure their loyalty as good corporate citizens of the US.
 

CA1900

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Looked at a TSA checkpoint lately?

X-ray monitors built by Hyundai. Uniforms made in China. Even the rollers for the bags are imported! (At least those are from Canada.)

Sending tax money overseas to "save money" is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but it's going on in all levels of government. :(
 

countbat

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I thought money talks was the reason.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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So you think the powerful corporate lobby is behind the DoD outsourcing to the lowest bidder, even if it's foreign?

I think AMC is trying to move the most cargo as cheap as it can. Clearly they're not running a jobs program or providing corporate welfare to US corporations.

Are you familiar with Rumsfelds speech to Pentagon Brass on 09/10/01?

Also, it really is nothing new. I January '02 I was at Kandahar airport in Afghanistan for a few weeks. The only people flying cargo into that airport during the day were flying Antonov's. I'm sure it was because they had some technical difficulty flying to unlit runways at night, but they were there.

So therefore it is good for America and its citizens?

Also in the nothing new department, Halliburton's KBR began providing support services to the DoD in austere locations during the Clinton administration in the former Yugoslavia. It shouldn't be surprising that an oil field support company moved to the oil fields, especially without Dick Cheney around to to ensure their loyalty as good corporate citizens of the US.

Wasn't Cheney CEO of Haliburton during the Clinton Admin?
 

avbug

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All our AMC carriers seem to be furloughing (Kalitta, Evergreen and Atlas rumored) while others like Tradewinds and Gemini went under. I've been spending a lot of time around Charleston AFB and have spoken with some customs agents. The bulk of the freight out of there lately is being flown by freakin' Russians and their Antonovs. Un F'in believable what the hell.... our own carriers are dying over here and our military cargo payments are going to Russians!! When I got hired by an AMC carrier I was told I had to have a US passport!!! I'm sure all the Antonov crews are true blue American patriots with US passports......not!! Anyone who has been furloughed should be pretty pissed. I have already sent a letter to my Congressman (don't know what good it will do). Those airplanes sholudn;t be on a USAF base let alone flying our cargo. One customs agent I spoke with was astounded that this was going on.

This paragraph shows so much ignorance of reality that it's hard to know where to begin.

AMC contractors have never been wholly supported by the military. AMC serves as a supplemental carrier through which military uplift is only part of the equation.

Operators such as Kalitta, which did the bulk of their trade out of Hong Kong carrying Victoria's Secret and other products, are furloughing because of many factors unrelated to AMC flights.

To suggest that the use of foreign contractors or Antonov aircraft has anything to do with loss of US jobs is ridiculous. It doesn't.

There has been a recent reduction in AMC flying to be sure, but this hasn't significantly impacted the operators who fill the CRAF or supplemental needs.

If operators do cut back and can't carry the load after they've furloughed, then the material still has to be carried and someone else will carry it.

A poor carpenter blames the saw, and operators who collapse under the weight of their own operation can't really blame the russians or anyone else for carrying the loads they've missed.

When MK went down earlier in the year, everybody picked up that slack, as well as other operators folding. This is business; not everyone makes it.
 

BoilerUP

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Stupid question...well, 2 actually.

Is there any military cargo that will not fit in a C17, but will fit in a C-5 or larger aircraft?

How many FREDs are out there these days?
 

chickenpilot

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the armored troop carriers dont fit in 747s hence the Antonovs

How is the staffing on the LCF? Some of us would still like to transition to it.
 

Dumb Pilot

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This last July I went out to buy a flag to put it in front of the house, I went to 4 different stores and couldn't find a single American flag made in America, go figure. I'll be damn if I'm going to waive an American flag made in Korea or China, so this 4th. of July I went flag less
 

freightdogfred

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This paragraph shows so much ignorance of reality that it's hard to know where to begin.

AMC contractors have never been wholly supported by the military. AMC serves as a supplemental carrier through which military uplift is only part of the equation.

Yes it does show ignorance of reality-your ignorance. The AMC contracts are the bread and butter of quite a few carriers, such as World, Kalitta, Omni. ATA was just about on the skids prior to the first gulf war, AMC pulled their chestnuts out of the fire. If you lose money on a DOD contract, it's because you can't add.



Operators such as Kalitta, which did the bulk of their trade out of Hong Kong carrying Victoria's Secret and other products, are furloughing because of many factors unrelated to AMC flights.

Yes brightspark, but understand that when you fly for MAC Uncle Sam buys the gas. Since all the freight is usually one-way, it's a part 91 ferry back from Sig, Diego, Kuwait, wherever, with full tanks. They then get basically a free repo to HKG with some gas to spare instead of flying westbound empty, in essence double-dipping. (Are ya still with me?)

To suggest that the use of foreign contractors or Antonov aircraft has anything to do with loss of US jobs is ridiculous. It doesn't.

There has been a recent reduction in AMC flying to be sure, but this hasn't significantly impacted the operators who fill the CRAF or supplemental needs.

If operators do cut back and can't carry the load after they've furloughed, then the material still has to be carried and someone else will carry it.

Well if Omni were to lose MAC flying I think you'd see them park their entire fleet. Every load that Antonov in CHS carries is a load a 121 carrier loses out on. I went on one of those Antonov's once in MMGL, there wasn't one tire on the a/c I would have backed out the driveway in my car with. The crew slept in the airplane. While it may be that Antonov is the only civilian a/c that can carry the BFV, your post does show your ignorance of the dependency of these carriers on MAC.
 

Zoneload

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The Antonov's are being used to carry MRAPS. They will not fit on a DC-10 or 747.
 

Secret Squirrel

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I thought the Antonov's were owned by a British company. The ones that flew out of Houston were.
 

wickedride

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I doubt there is anyone on this board that has enough money to sway any politician to make a decision much less a decision based on whats good for the entire country.
We are own worst enemy.
 

AC560

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I thought the Antonov's were owned by a British company. The ones that flew out of Houston were.

There was a joint venture between Volga-Dnepr and UK Company Heavy Lift (Volga owned the planes, Heavy Lift sold the space) but that terminated 1999 or 2000. They are all Russian operations, far as I am aware.

Just to add to the other comments nobody is chartering an Antonov unless it is a size/weight issue military or commercial. They cost about twice as much, they do half as much, take twice as long, fly half as far, etc. The only purpose for them is taking extremely dense cargo, oversized cargo, or operations out of fields which a commerical plane can't land (i.e. some West African sh1t h0le).
 
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