US Airways passengers and baggage stranded

[lowecur]

Yep,

I'm not sure why the thread was cancelled. Maybe someone crossed the lines on a post.

You better delete this post my friend. You could find yourself called before a Federal Judge to testify.

 

[stillflyn]

once again.... what the he11 are you talking about?

 

[flint4xx]

Wrong!! The Federal Rules of Evidence do not contain a physician-patient privilege, and although federal courts may recognize such a privilege under federal law, most are reluctant to do so. It is important to remember though that this privilege can be easily waived. If in court proceedings, either civil or criminal, the patient puts her medical condition in issue, then this privilege is automatically waived. For example, an insanity defense in a criminal case would remove, from coverage under the privilege, a patient's medical records relating to mental condition, both before and after the incident. In a civil action, for personal injury sustained in an accident, or as the result of someone's negligence, medical records both before the incident and after would also be removed from the protection of the privilege.


What you've quoted above has little to do with and employee calling in sick with the squirts, a headache, or a cold that is gone two days later. Never mind the revolt from the rank and file that would result if a "civil action" were initiated by the company. These are people, not slaves. I hope you treat your subordinates better. AND I will give you twenty bucks when a judge enforces anything along these lines in a case like this. Do you take monopoly money?

I know you're trying hard to understand the business, but you've got a LONG way to go. Happy Holidays.

 

[lowecur]

What you've quoted above has little to do with and employee calling in sick with the squirts, a headache, or a cold that is gone two days later. People should be able to work with those medical inconveniences. I've done it for years. Never mind the revolt from the rank and file that would result if a "civil action" were initiated by the company. These are people, not slaves. I hope you treat your subordinates better. AND I will give you twenty bucks when a judge enforces anything along these lines in a case like this. Do you take monopoly money?

I know you're trying hard to understand the business, but you've got a LONG way to go. Happy Holidays.

You're probably right, but I still believe the public health and welfare are at stake here. We shall see. Happy Holidays to you.

 

[AlbieF15]

If those folks creating CHAOS were doing it to flip the bird to US Air on the way down (or out..), they did a good job. However, I think the ill will caused by the action will only hasten the demise of US Air.

I'm not condemning the action, and in many ways the courage to take the (implied) action just gave labor at every other airline a shot in the arm. By showing what some frustrated workers can do and reminding management that there is a breaking point, perhaps Mgt will at least attempt to keep the masses a bit happier (at other airlines).

On the other hand, I don't think US Air can bounce back from this PR fiasco. I don't think this action "helped" the US Air employees, but it probably helped a whole lot of other airline employees in this bedraggled industry.

Wishing all parties involved the very best. I know there are some great people at US Air fighting to keep their carrier alive, and this action probably frustrated them. I can see their side. I can also sympathize with the "enough is enough" crowd, too. I think Ty is spot on regarding that issue.

Red, Repicheep, Airbus331.....what say you guys who are closer to the fight that are now somewhere else?

 

[blzr]

Origionally posted by Locurrrrwhatever

"Actually I bet it was the newly hired rock bottom employees that showed up. This job action was by the older "bitter" long time employees. Best they be pushed aside, and into retirement..."



Hey Locwhatever... Can you tell me what the date of hire would be for one of these Rock bottom newhire would be? I would be curious to know the answer, as the rock bottom new hire pilot is July 1988.

Also, the company can request that you go to the doctor and get a medical excuse, which they used on me once. not real hard to find an ER doc that knows less about medicine than you know about Airlines.

??? Who in their right mind would go to work for a company that just fired hundreds of f/A's and had a judge tell the rest of the company that if you call in sick and it inconveniences management then you too will be fired?

yada yada yada...

 

[TriStar_drvr]

In spite of this mess, some USAirways empoyees continued to do their jobs well. I ended up in PHL Saturday night after flying a charter to PVR and back. Rather than go to the hotel, I went to the gate of the next USAirways flight to Charlotte, where I hoped to join a family reunion. At the gate, I found one gate agent, a line of frustrated passengers, about 25 standby pax (many were non-revs), and two other pilots looking for a JS.

This gate agent processed every pax, boarded the pax, patiently answered all questions, politely printed boarding passes when pax showed up at the gate without one, and managed to get all the standbys on the flight.

The pilots were friendly when I checked in with them, offering to try to store my bag if I couldn't find room for it, even though the cockpit was full with a company pilot in the JS. I didn't know about the baggage fiasco, and only now understand his comment of "whatever you do, don't check your bag."

The flight attendants smiled and were polite. I was excitedly calling my wife, telling her I was on the flight and was told by an FA to "get off the phone!" I turned around to see him smiling at me, and he said, "just kidding."

Anyway, all the USAirways employees I came in contact did a good job. I can understand their frustration. I'm in the same boat with my airline. I know this is rambling, but I just want to thank the USAirways employees who got me to my family on Christmas. Those who did the job well did it for the satisfaction of doing a job well. Certainly not for the inept management, or the decimated paycheck.

Like them, I'll continue to go to work and do the job to the best of my abilities. I'm going to savor greeting the pax and thanking them for flying my airline. I love this job, and don't know how much longer I'm going to have it. I'm sure that is the feeling of many of the USAirways employees...

 

[Ty Webb]

Why did you cancel the n/s from FLL to ROC? I was just planning to book a Feb flight.

I think you just answered your own question.


Seriously, I didn't cancel anything . . . but if the company did, I can only assume that it was because they found something more promising to put the aircraft on.

 

[lowecur]

Shame

Reading this about a brother who was trying to get Christmas presents to his neices and nephews after their father was killed in Iraq, brings home just how thoughtless the timing was for this job action. Just one of hundreds of stories that affected families throughout the US Airways network:

"I'm just trying to do what I can for his family," Stoffel said as he finally picked up his gift-laden luggage. "I buried my brother a week ago yesterday. His youngest kids barely know what happened to their father, and now they didn't get their gifts from us."

The airline, operating at near-normal levels, canceled 43 of about 1,200 flights systemwide on Sunday, down from 143 on Saturday and 176 on Friday. "I have seen lots of excuses for why people took it upon themselves to call in sick, such as low morale, poor management, anger over pay cuts and frustration with labor negotiations," Lakefield said. "None of those excuses passes the test." Three times the normal level of FA's called in sick this X-mass. Shame on you.

Hard to believe the judge won't impose some sort of punitive action once the investigation is completed.

 

[Ty Webb]

"I have seen lots of excuses for why people took it upon themselves to call in sick, such as low morale, poor management, anger over pay cuts and frustration with labor negotiations," Lakefield said. "None of those excuses passes the test."

Hmm, why don't you add "raping their pension funds", "dismantling the agreement they work under" and "undoing all of the progress they have made since 1985" to the list, and it starts making sense. . . . And no judge can force an employee to work, period.

Sorry, Lowecur, you just failed Airline Management 101. Cut it too close to the bone, and the employees walk. Without the employees on-board, you have nothing but a bunch of aluminum rotting in the desert . . . . but I'm not surprised that you can't seem to get your mind around this concept- MS FlightSim doesn't have employees.

 

[75M]

Reading this about a brother who was trying to get Christmas presents to his neices and nephews after their father was killed in Iraq, brings home just how thoughtless the timing was for this job action.

Obviously what happened to the passengers bites, and they're the ones who have justifiaby received the sympathy in this situation. I hope everybody got to their destination in one piece and can celebrate the holiday with their loved ones even if it is a few days late. We celebrated Chrismas on 12/22 as I'm sure many people in the business did.

But Lowecur, do you even know what job action is? It ain't FA's and baggage handlers calling in sick for Christmas, that's SOP and any competent management would be properly staffed and be ready for it. And at the risk of seeming proactive, they could have thought to offer a few extra buddy passes or maybe some other recognition for working. It wouldn't have been a cure-all, but it may have helped to mitigate the situation. I know USAir doesn't have any money, but a little creativity goes a long way in this type of situation.

The old adage that says "If you treat the employees like dogs, they will bite the customer" is once again proven true. unfortunately, management isn't the only party to blame for this attitude. On this board, I've read pilots refer to FA's as "over priced Coke machines" and "cocktail waitresses" on this very thread I saw baggages handlers referred to as "baggage monkeys".

Since we have little control over what management does, the least we can do as pilots (and I do believe pilots are in a leadership role and thus should act like leaders) is treat the other employee groups with respect.

 

[SWA/FO]

Why are people buying tickets on a carrier that is in ch. 11? It would make sense to me that employees losing everthing they have worked for would just say "f*ck it" and stay home with the Family.

I think this is a problem at every carrier, this time of year. Just a little worst at US Airways... or a little worst in the public eye with all the press.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

"I have seen lots of excuses for why people took it upon themselves to call in sick, such as low morale, poor management, anger over pay cuts and frustration with labor negotiations," Lakefield said. "None of those excuses passes the test." Three times the normal level of FA's called in sick this X-mass. Shame on you.

Hard to believe the judge won't impose some sort of punative action once the investigation is completed.

The punitive action will be failure of the airline THIS YEAR. I wish the best for every employee involved but I can't see another option with the players in this situation.

Lowecur,

Don't fall into the trap of thinking a BK judge and investor (Bonner) can dictate how people will react to the gutting of USAir. They are not junior high students. They have wills of their own and when they see a situation where leaving the job looks better than staying, they will act. Management, or labor, never has all the cards. They have to compromise. If not, disaster will follow.

Management has seemingly unlimited power but that will not last. As it didn't when labor had the upper hand 1998-2000. There are limits and each side pushes the limits. If management doesn't back off, you can say goodbye to USAir and probably UAL.

 

[N8Dogg]

Maybe we are starting to see the first signs of employees that have been pushed to the limit at USAir. I don't blame them. Hopefully this will send a message to the management of this industry that the cost of labor pay cuts can be high. It must be great giving pay and bennefit concesions and then watching some a$$ CEO and his buddies jump out with golden parachutes! If we are going to point fingers, lets point them in the right direction! It all starts at the top!

 

[NEDude]

If we are going to point fingers, lets point them in the right direction! It all starts at the top!

EXACTLY!!!!!

If someone is going to take credit when things go right, then they should take the blame when things go wrong. Management should be responsible for setting the tone and developing the business plan, and the employees should execute that plan. The problem at Airways is management has set a rotten tone and has failed at developing a decent business plan. Can't blame the employees for that, yet management seems to try.

 

[Dodge]

IF this was a sickout by AFA, I would say about time someone at UAIR stood up for themselves. I recently talked to a NWA pilot and he was mad as he11 that the USAIR pilots keep driving down his profession. He said that even though NWA is not in BK court, NWA says they will be if they don't match UAL and USAIR crew costs.

As crappy as it was for the Eastern guys, many of them did get hired on at other majors and retired as captains without watering down the profession for everyone else in the process. Now, UAIR will most likely go down for good, even with all the concessions. As the NWA pilot said, "too bad it couldn't of happened before they ruined it for us too."

 

[BeCareful!]

Boy, do people have short memories. All of this happened in December, 2001, as well. Sure, the company furloughed some 400 pilots on one day, and then asked some of them to fly into their furloughs because they were on trips. Now, that was kinda lame, but so is the current situation, with contentious labor contracts being negotiated during the Hoidays, and the company spewing fear and doom nonstop, which of course makes people not give @ s#!t.

Real, experienced leadership is the only thing that will cure these problems. USAir is going to survive, though. None of this is enough to bring the system down for good, it just makes good newspaper copy.

I flew 48 people to Knoxville on Christmas Eve. We were two hours late because we were waiting on a Flight Attendant, but as we taxied in at midnight she had the pax singing Christmas carols!! Everyone de-planed happy, and they were very complimentary of our (PSA) service.

It's stories like this that keep people coming back, and, trust me, they are the stories you'll never read about in USA Today, Post Gazzette, et al.........

 

[sleepy]

The FAA should just shut USAir down. It is just plain silly to let them continue to operate if this is the best that they can do during the busiest travel time of the year.

 

[BeCareful!]

Yeah, Sleepy, that's it! Comair cancels 1100 flights, but U loses a few bgs and has a minor sickout, and you think the FAA should just pull the plug!

Yeah, that's a good use of my tax dollars.

 

[Tristar]

What you've quoted above has little to do with and employee calling in sick with the squirts, a headache, or a cold that is gone two days later. People should be able to work with those medical inconveniences. I've done it for years.

I'm sure you have, but you don't work in an environment which is subject to pressure changes (can't work with a cold that blocks the ears or sinuses), or subject to the regulation of the FAA (pilots can't work with ANY condition which would render their medical invalid). There's a tad more involved in moving 100 tons of aircraft around than preventing paper cuts and not spilling your coffee.

 

[miles otoole]

I'm sure you have, but you don't work in an environment which is subject to pressure changes (can't work with a cold that blocks the ears or sinuses), or subject to the regulation of the FAA (pilots can't work with ANY condition which would render their medical invalid). There's a tad more involved in moving 100 tons of aircraft around than preventing paper cuts and not spilling your coffee.

Right! How many times have you flown with a pilot who has the flu and 102 degree fever? I have plenty of times-very selfish. Pilots in general will do what suits their particular needs-no more, no less. If it means making an extra 500 beans, they'll do it.

 

[CRJDog]

Why are people buying tickets on a carrier that is in ch. 11? It would make sense to me that employees losing everthing they have worked for would just say "f*ck it" and stay home with the Family.

I think this is a problem at every carrier, this time of year. Just a little worst at US Airways... or a little worst in the public eye with all the press.

You're kidding right?

 

[sleepy]

Yeah, Sleepy, that's it! Comair cancels 1100 flights, but U loses a few bgs and has a minor sickout, and you think the FAA should just pull the plug!

Yeah, that's a good use of my tax dollars.

It is a good use of our tax dollars. Something has to go to help save the other airlines. If we can get rid if USAir's capacity, then maybe the rest of the legacy carriers can make it. I am sorry, but somebody has to go. This is really just the writing on the wall, USAir is done!

It was more than just a few misplaced bags BTW. It was a self-induced disaster.

 

[Draginass]

Yeah, Sleepy, that's it! Comair cancels 1100 flights, but U loses a few bgs and has a minor sickout, and you think the FAA should just pull the plug!

Yeah, that's a good use of my tax dollars.

There comes a time when the labor atmosphere becomes so poisoned that one has to question safety aspects of the operation. I think we're there.

 

[Tristar]

Right! How many times have you flown with a pilot who has the flu and 102 degree fever? I have plenty of times-very selfish. Pilots in general will do what suits their particular needs-no more, no less. If it means making an extra 500 beans, they'll do it.

I know it happens, but that doesn't make it right or technically legal. I was merely pointing out yet another area in which Low has no clue about aircraft/airline operations (which would appear to be a prerequisite to be an anal-linguist or whatever title he gives himself).