US Airways passengers and baggage stranded

[lowecur]

Lower: Perhaps you should READ the post before you quote it. The point that Cappy was trying to make was that if management doesn't think the action was planned then they really are too stupid to be "running" an airline.

Cappy: Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

FJ

He may have been trying to say that, but I believe they are trying to appear non-confrontational to the NTA and judge. I think they will let them make the call. It's smart PR.

 

[lowecur]

lowecur, You enjoy yanking the chain, don't ya?

The airline already has the right to fire these people. The union might fight to get the job back, but they can't stop the firing.

enigma

Yeah, but if they want to have any chance of keeping them off the property permanantly, they better have medical backup.

 

[Ty Webb]

Sorry Ty, but unless you are just short of dying, you will be told to report to work.

You're still missing the point. No one can force anyone to work, you can only offer to pay them a fair wage for working . . . and these employees are basically saying, "It isn't worth it". If a judge "orders" them back to work, it only applies if they want to continue working there.

Ty, I'm sorry you lost out at MDW. Now don't be getting your hopes up too high that a liquidation of UAIR in the near future will help AAI out.

My own situation would have become worse, not better, had the MDW deal went through. Since you're not in the industry, I won't bother to explain the effect of a junior base openign up for those of us who commute from small-market cities.

As for USAir, what happens will happen, but we at AAI are focused on making money in the here and now, not hanging it out in hopes of someone going away.

 

[lowecur]

You're still missing the point. No one can force anyone to work, you can only offer to pay them a fair wage for working . . . and these employees are basically saying, "It isn't worth it". If a judge "orders" them back to work, it only applies if they want to continue working there. Very true, but that would then make both sides happy. This is not something these "hardliners" want.

My own situation would have become worse, not better, had the MDW deal went through. Since you're not in the industry, but I'm an analcyst I won't bother to explain the effect of a junior base openign up for those of us who commute from small-market cities.

As for USAir, what happens will happen, but we at AAI are focused on making money in the here and now, not hanging it out in hopes of someone going away.

Why did you cancel the n/s from FLL to ROC? I was just planning to book a Feb flight. I see they only operated for a short time. Maybe Delta will open it up with 170's.

 

[flint4xx]

Lowecur,

I enjoy reading your rants as much as the next guy, but this time you know not of what you speak.

1. In the airline business, seniority is everything. Therefore, more senior employees most likely have Xmas off, and the newer employees scheduled to work Xmas called in sick. One again, if you actually new anything about the airlines...

2. There is no way in hell ANY employer is going to demand verification of an illness by anything other than a doctors note affirming the paitent was ill/injured, and how hard would that be to get? Doctor/client priviledge is not optional for failing airline management, and no judge would step on his crank trying to say otherwise. If someone calls in sick, the reason is none of the employers' business.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

This is absolutely outrageous! I have e-mailed Storm'n Norman Mineta, and demanded the BK judge give UAIR the right to fire these employees. The airline should be allowed by the BK judge to demand employees report to work for an examination by an RN. Those employees too sick to report would have to report that to their supervisor, who then would have RN's sent to their house for examination. Those too sick to work would be sent home, and those who are examined at home and no illness sick enough to keep them from driving should receive a letter of termination. Most of the employees calling in sick are probably at the hubs. This would not be a hard task to complete. Since the Unions have not acknowledged this as a job action, these employees would have a difficult time getting their jobs back.

But what if the nurses call in sick?

GP

 

[stillflyn]

Lowecur,

Your lack of "airline knowledge" is really showing. It might be a good idea if you gave up your dreams of becoming part of the Boyd team. I don't know if Mike thinks you have the "stuff". You wouldn't fit in out in Colorado anyway.

so long...

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur,

I enjoy reading your rants as much as the next guy, but this time you know not of what you speak. Okay.

1. In the airline business, seniority is everything. Therefore, more senior employees most likely have Xmas off What about Thurs & Fri? It's my understanding Mgt and senior employees were called back to work on X-mas, and the newer employees scheduled to work Xmas called in sick. One again, if you actually new anything about the airlines...I'm trying

2. There is no way in hell ANY employer is going to demand verification of an illness by anything other than a doctors note affirming the paitent was ill/injured, Ever heard of the Railway Labor Act? If the judge feels that this was in all probability a job action, he can make any adjustment to the contract to protect the public. That could include ordering employees to report to work as scheduled, and require those that want to go home sick to submit to a medical examination. how hard would that be to get? Doctor/client priviledge is not optional for failing airline management, and no judge would step on his crank trying to say otherwise. If someone calls in sick, the reason is none of the employers' business. Wrong!! The Federal Rules of Evidence do not contain a physician-patient privilege, and although federal courts may recognize such a privilege under federal law, most are reluctant to do so. It is important to remember though that this privilege can be easily waived. If in court proceedings, either civil or criminal, the patient puts her medical condition in issue, then this privilege is automatically waived. For example, an insanity defense in a criminal case would remove, from coverage under the privilege, a patient's medical records relating to mental condition, both before and after the incident. In a civil action, for personal injury sustained in an accident, or as the result of someone's negligence, medical records both before the incident and after would also be removed from the protection of the privilege.

If all that doesn't work, then GWB could send it to Congress to quickly order the last contract submitted by UAIR to go into effect......

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur,

Your lack of "airline knowledge" is really showing. It might be a good idea if you gave up your dreams of becoming part of the Boyd team. Never. Mike needs an analcyst like me. I don't know if Mike thinks you have the "stuff". You wouldn't fit in out in Colorado anyway.

so long...

Didn't you just have a thread cancelled?

 

[stillflyn]

Yep,

One of my F/As told me that there was a large sickout taking place. I was just asking "if anyone had heard anything about it". There was no news reports on it at that point. I'm not sure why the thread was cancelled. Maybe someone crossed the lines on a post.

 

[lowecur]

Yep,

I'm not sure why the thread was cancelled. Maybe someone crossed the lines on a post.

You better delete this post my friend. You could find yourself called before a Federal Judge to testify.

 

[stillflyn]

once again.... what the he11 are you talking about?

 

[flint4xx]

Wrong!! The Federal Rules of Evidence do not contain a physician-patient privilege, and although federal courts may recognize such a privilege under federal law, most are reluctant to do so. It is important to remember though that this privilege can be easily waived. If in court proceedings, either civil or criminal, the patient puts her medical condition in issue, then this privilege is automatically waived. For example, an insanity defense in a criminal case would remove, from coverage under the privilege, a patient's medical records relating to mental condition, both before and after the incident. In a civil action, for personal injury sustained in an accident, or as the result of someone's negligence, medical records both before the incident and after would also be removed from the protection of the privilege.


What you've quoted above has little to do with and employee calling in sick with the squirts, a headache, or a cold that is gone two days later. Never mind the revolt from the rank and file that would result if a "civil action" were initiated by the company. These are people, not slaves. I hope you treat your subordinates better. AND I will give you twenty bucks when a judge enforces anything along these lines in a case like this. Do you take monopoly money?

I know you're trying hard to understand the business, but you've got a LONG way to go. Happy Holidays.

 

[lowecur]

What you've quoted above has little to do with and employee calling in sick with the squirts, a headache, or a cold that is gone two days later. People should be able to work with those medical inconveniences. I've done it for years. Never mind the revolt from the rank and file that would result if a "civil action" were initiated by the company. These are people, not slaves. I hope you treat your subordinates better. AND I will give you twenty bucks when a judge enforces anything along these lines in a case like this. Do you take monopoly money?

I know you're trying hard to understand the business, but you've got a LONG way to go. Happy Holidays.

You're probably right, but I still believe the public health and welfare are at stake here. We shall see. Happy Holidays to you.

 

[AlbieF15]

If those folks creating CHAOS were doing it to flip the bird to US Air on the way down (or out..), they did a good job. However, I think the ill will caused by the action will only hasten the demise of US Air.

I'm not condemning the action, and in many ways the courage to take the (implied) action just gave labor at every other airline a shot in the arm. By showing what some frustrated workers can do and reminding management that there is a breaking point, perhaps Mgt will at least attempt to keep the masses a bit happier (at other airlines).

On the other hand, I don't think US Air can bounce back from this PR fiasco. I don't think this action "helped" the US Air employees, but it probably helped a whole lot of other airline employees in this bedraggled industry.

Wishing all parties involved the very best. I know there are some great people at US Air fighting to keep their carrier alive, and this action probably frustrated them. I can see their side. I can also sympathize with the "enough is enough" crowd, too. I think Ty is spot on regarding that issue.

Red, Repicheep, Airbus331.....what say you guys who are closer to the fight that are now somewhere else?

 

[blzr]

Origionally posted by Locurrrrwhatever

"Actually I bet it was the newly hired rock bottom employees that showed up. This job action was by the older "bitter" long time employees. Best they be pushed aside, and into retirement..."



Hey Locwhatever... Can you tell me what the date of hire would be for one of these Rock bottom newhire would be? I would be curious to know the answer, as the rock bottom new hire pilot is July 1988.

Also, the company can request that you go to the doctor and get a medical excuse, which they used on me once. not real hard to find an ER doc that knows less about medicine than you know about Airlines.

??? Who in their right mind would go to work for a company that just fired hundreds of f/A's and had a judge tell the rest of the company that if you call in sick and it inconveniences management then you too will be fired?

yada yada yada...

 

[TriStar_drvr]

In spite of this mess, some USAirways empoyees continued to do their jobs well. I ended up in PHL Saturday night after flying a charter to PVR and back. Rather than go to the hotel, I went to the gate of the next USAirways flight to Charlotte, where I hoped to join a family reunion. At the gate, I found one gate agent, a line of frustrated passengers, about 25 standby pax (many were non-revs), and two other pilots looking for a JS.

This gate agent processed every pax, boarded the pax, patiently answered all questions, politely printed boarding passes when pax showed up at the gate without one, and managed to get all the standbys on the flight.

The pilots were friendly when I checked in with them, offering to try to store my bag if I couldn't find room for it, even though the cockpit was full with a company pilot in the JS. I didn't know about the baggage fiasco, and only now understand his comment of "whatever you do, don't check your bag."

The flight attendants smiled and were polite. I was excitedly calling my wife, telling her I was on the flight and was told by an FA to "get off the phone!" I turned around to see him smiling at me, and he said, "just kidding."

Anyway, all the USAirways employees I came in contact did a good job. I can understand their frustration. I'm in the same boat with my airline. I know this is rambling, but I just want to thank the USAirways employees who got me to my family on Christmas. Those who did the job well did it for the satisfaction of doing a job well. Certainly not for the inept management, or the decimated paycheck.

Like them, I'll continue to go to work and do the job to the best of my abilities. I'm going to savor greeting the pax and thanking them for flying my airline. I love this job, and don't know how much longer I'm going to have it. I'm sure that is the feeling of many of the USAirways employees...

 

[Ty Webb]

Why did you cancel the n/s from FLL to ROC? I was just planning to book a Feb flight.

I think you just answered your own question.


Seriously, I didn't cancel anything . . . but if the company did, I can only assume that it was because they found something more promising to put the aircraft on.

 

[lowecur]

Shame

Reading this about a brother who was trying to get Christmas presents to his neices and nephews after their father was killed in Iraq, brings home just how thoughtless the timing was for this job action. Just one of hundreds of stories that affected families throughout the US Airways network:

"I'm just trying to do what I can for his family," Stoffel said as he finally picked up his gift-laden luggage. "I buried my brother a week ago yesterday. His youngest kids barely know what happened to their father, and now they didn't get their gifts from us."

The airline, operating at near-normal levels, canceled 43 of about 1,200 flights systemwide on Sunday, down from 143 on Saturday and 176 on Friday. "I have seen lots of excuses for why people took it upon themselves to call in sick, such as low morale, poor management, anger over pay cuts and frustration with labor negotiations," Lakefield said. "None of those excuses passes the test." Three times the normal level of FA's called in sick this X-mass. Shame on you.

Hard to believe the judge won't impose some sort of punitive action once the investigation is completed.

 

[Ty Webb]

"I have seen lots of excuses for why people took it upon themselves to call in sick, such as low morale, poor management, anger over pay cuts and frustration with labor negotiations," Lakefield said. "None of those excuses passes the test."

Hmm, why don't you add "raping their pension funds", "dismantling the agreement they work under" and "undoing all of the progress they have made since 1985" to the list, and it starts making sense. . . . And no judge can force an employee to work, period.

Sorry, Lowecur, you just failed Airline Management 101. Cut it too close to the bone, and the employees walk. Without the employees on-board, you have nothing but a bunch of aluminum rotting in the desert . . . . but I'm not surprised that you can't seem to get your mind around this concept- MS FlightSim doesn't have employees.