US Airways' go-it-alone approach paying off

[Guppiedriver]

Truthfully I think I scanned the C&R's once, and don't even know where they are right now. Part of the reason is, the possibility of those changing and not really applicable until a contract is finalized which contains them. Point me to where they are and I'll go look at them again.

My thoughts on the C/R's is they should be fair to both sides, however they are constructed, taking into account the possibility of expansion and retraction, vacancies, attrition etc on both sides......

I found them on USAPA's website....can't remember where.

If US Airways had not merged with AWA and they had somehow managed to avoid liquidation, when do you think you would have been recalled?

 

[TWA Dude]

My thoughts on the C/R's is they should be fair to both sides, however they are constructed, taking into account the possibility of expansion and retraction, vacancies, attrition etc on both sides......

Funnily enough, you and George Nicolau are in agreement here.

So what do you call it when instead of a neutral deciding one side tries to cram their version of 'fair' C&Rs down the gullet of the other: DFR II. Do you feel lucky?

 

[Whine Lover]

And at UsAirways...well

 

[Crzipilot]

Truthfully. Around the same time frame. What I saw. Was an airline being
Managed down for the merger. Which I think was ongoing for a year maybe two as they were packaging it up. There was a reason the target floated from we need a contract comparable to this airline....down to finally we need cuts down to awest contract levels. I believe us was run incredibly thin in preparation of the merger. Hence the disparity in staffing levels. Prior to age 65, if everything remained static, I think I was projected to see the left seat around 2014-15. Put the nic in there and I believe it's. 5-7 years later

 

[Crzipilot]

Funnily enough, you and George Nicolau are in agreement here.

So what do you call it when instead of a neutral deciding one side tries to cram their version of 'fair' C&Rs down the gullet of the other: DFR II. Do you feel lucky?

So since you guys have been joining and have reps. Why not look at the c&r. Take what you find as unfair and have your reps present revised ones at a future meeting. This may open the door to more reasonableness from both sides and have an end result that east and west can live with.

A few I have in mind but typing on an iPhone sucks.......

So does the west feel like being reasonable or do they want to continue to throw lawsuits around?????

Imagine that presenting your own c&rs. As a starter and coming to an agreement would nueturalize the companies recent delay tactics.

How bout protecting the
West sides airplanes and hours left seat spots from the t/a. Anything above that either side is open bid for whomever.
Furloughs .... Dunno. Furloughs are done even across both sides. With reduction of hours having to be theoretically split evenly east and west to determine howany from each side must leave? Any growth or new ac is fair game to whomever


Just some ideas late at night

 

[TWA Dude]

So does the west feel like being reasonable or do they want to continue to throw lawsuits around?????

How can you type that with a straight face? Right after the Nic came out your MEC sued our MEC. From that point on all unreasonableness is from the East. What you want now is extortion.

Furloughs are done even across both sides.

furloughs are done in reverse seniority order. What you propose is out of seniority furloughs. Won't happen. That's why C&Rs are irrelevant.

You just have to face it: the Nic list was obtained through a fair and impartial process. Right now we have only the tyranny of the majority. The West can propose all we like but in the end the East can cram down whatever you like. That's why there's a DFR issue and it isn't going away. You want end this impasse? Easy: accept the Nic and we'll unite to get the best possible contract. Delay hurts y'all more than us.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well how can you say all unreasonableness comes from the east after that post?


As to the furloughs. Sure they are done by seniority, historically, but what prevents us from thinking outside if the box?

Either way it's pretty ibvios that a determined insistence on the nic is going to leave us right where we are? Reasonable huh?

 

[TWA Dude]

Well how can you say all unreasonableness comes from the east after that post?

Are you living in a vacuum? Did you not notice that the West has lost its ability to bargain as equals? Your proposals are irrelevant. With two MECs there was at least a chance for bilateral reasonableness. USAPA took that away PERMANENTLY. You're trying to turn the clock back but it cannot be done.

As to the furloughs. Sure they are done by seniority, historically, but what prevents us from thinking outside if the box?

Um, well your C&BLs for one. Cleary for two. But good luck with that anyway.

Either way it's pretty ibvios that a determined insistence on the nic is going to leave us right where we are? Reasonable huh?

Correct. Insisting on upholding agreements is definitely reasonable. Trying to throw out the Nic and impose your own list is not only unreasonable but it violates the law.

 

[Crzipilot]

Uhmmm...do you have reps in PHX??? Can they not bring ideas to the BPR, can that not be taken under consideration, and possibly implemented? Could or would these ideas from the west, possibly not satisfy those on the west?

You see it as not being able to negotiate, but if your ideas for C/R's can be implemented would that not be the same as having them negotiated?

Either way, just throwing ideas out there.....obviously something has to break the stale mate, but your obviously not willing to look for other ways besides an insistance for the NIC....

good luck with your endeavor...

 

[TWA Dude]

Uhmmm...do you have reps in PHX??? Can they not bring ideas to the BPR, can that not be taken under consideration, and possibly implemented?

Sure, as long as the rest of the BPR doesn't disagree -- which they will.

You see it as not being able to negotiate, but if your ideas for C/R's can be implemented would that not be the same as having them negotiated?

We can present all the ideas we like. The rest of the BPR will outvote us and end of story. There's a reason why ALPA Merger Policy had the two MECs negotiating as equals.

Either way, just throwing ideas out there.....obviously something has to break the stale mate, but your obviously not willing to look for other ways besides an insistance for the NIC....

Correct. We are entitled to the Nicolau list and if we don't get it it's DFR II. It's all up to you.

Now seriously, I appreciate that you're at least attempting to sound reasonable. But you're ignoring reality. We played by the rules and the East hasn't. We get that you don't think the Nic is fair but that's the risk you take in binding arbitration. There simply isn't any do-over. You don't get to change the rules in the middle of the game then tell us we're being unreasonable for not going along. You have no right to ignore the Nic and that's why we're in court.