US Air Superiority in flux?

[Wanderlust]

I don't see an air superiority fighter being a priority in today's theaters. It's an expensive toy that's essentially obsolete. "Pork", I think you call it?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I think we should get rid of the AF, and the certain assets, especially the A-10 should go to the Army, and other assets to the Navy. If we need a separate service, we should have a Space service.

The new air-superiority airframes ARE too expensive. We can modify the airframes we have, both physically and with software, to create a much better aircraft, just like the Israeli's do with our airframes (and I've heard the Iranians have done with the F-14s we gave them-IDIOTS!!!).

I was a victim of the short-sightedness with cancelling the SAR helo buy, to fund more fighters. Someone needs to be in charge of the military who is look after the best interests of AMERICA, and not even just the military, not to mention the Air Force or the fighter community.

The correct question is: What is the most efficient use of our money governmental units that will help America the most, to include an EFFECTIVE military?

NOT an easy question to answer.

cliff
GRB

 

[CatfishVT9]

A buddy of mine sent me this. Don't know if it's true or not, but never let the truth get in the way of a good story..........

The conversation went something like this...

" Iranian Air Defense Radar: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace Identify yourself.'

Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'

Air Defense Radar: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'

Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter Send 'em up, I'll wait!'

Radar: (no response ... total silence)

 

[Wanderlust]

A buddy of mine sent me this. Don't know if it's true or not, but never let the truth get in the way of a good story..........

The conversation went something like this...

" Iranian Air Defense Radar: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace Identify yourself.'

Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'

Air Defense Radar: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'

Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter Send 'em up, I'll wait!'

Radar: (no response ... total silence)

Air Defense Radar: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace Identify yourself.'

ICBM: *silence*

Air Defense Radar: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace identify yourself immediately!!'

ICBM: *silence*

Air Defense Radar: 'Unknown aircra- *static*

*silence*

 

[Mamma]

"Jack of all trades, master of none". You clearly don't understand the capabilities of the Air Force specialized assets.

As to no more Fighter guys in leadership positions, yes let put shoe clerks and cargo pilots in charge of deciding what the Combat Air Force fighter mix should look like.

YGTBSM

USMCAirWinger,
They put a fighter guy in charge of deciding what the mobility Air Force mix would look like and he did pretty well (Gen Fogelman). I would guess he knew absolutely jack about mobility assets (in the detail needed) when he assumed the job, but he had smart mobility pilots to draw from to get his information. He then used his exceptional leadership skills to get it done. I don't know if this is the best way to do things normally but maybe it brings a fresh point of view in. A lot of folks believe the Air Force was run by fighter guys since inception when the truth of the matter is they only came into running things from the top (CSAF) in the 1980s. It was bomber and mobility pilots running the show (CSAF) for the 30+ years prior to that. I think they did a pretty good job on appropriations. F-4, F-15, A-10, F-16 and so on.
I understand what you are saying, but I think history might disagree.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Hi!

I think we should get rid of the AF, and the certain assets, especially the A-10 should go to the Army, and other assets to the Navy. If we need a separate service, we should have a Space service.

The new air-superiority airframes ARE too expensive. We can modify the airframes we have, both physically and with software, to create a much better aircraft, just like the Israeli's do with our airframes (and I've heard the Iranians have done with the F-14s we gave them-IDIOTS!!!).

I was a victim of the short-sightedness with cancelling the SAR helo buy, to fund more fighters. Someone needs to be in charge of the military who is look after the best interests of AMERICA, and not even just the military, not to mention the Air Force or the fighter community.

The correct question is: What is the most efficient use of our money governmental units that will help America the most, to include an EFFECTIVE military?

NOT an easy question to answer.

cliff
GRB

Not sure where you are getting this info from, but we slapped a trade embargo on all military hardware for Iran almost immediately after the Shah was exiled in 1979. If they did upgrade their Tomcats, then it was before 1979 because nowadays those things are barely flyable. Being intercepted by an Iranian F-14 was very low on my "aw sh!t" list when I was flying over there.

Their P-3Fs are still somewhat flyable. They will rain down sonobouys on you like it's nobody's business.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I read from some other mil fighter guys that the Iranians have done a lot of work on the F-14s, including avionics upgrades, and they have them up and flying.

Cliff
GRB

 

[timmay]

In 1931 we were not at war, we are right now. We did not field fleets of jets in WW2 because a 100-1 advantage of P-51's could make sure very few Germans jets could get off the ground.

That and the fact that we had no idea how to build a jet until we got the designs from the Germans and Japanese.

 

[414Flyer]

That and the fact that we had no idea how to build a jet until we got the designs from the Germans and Japanese.

Learn some history before looking silly. We had a jet flying in 1943 and had a limited number of P-80s in Europe by Jan 45. Japanese jets were just redesigned ME-262 and didnt even fly until after the bombing of Hiroshima.

 

[timmay]

Learn some history before looking silly. We had a jet flying in 1943 and had a limited number of P-80s in Europe by Jan 45. Japanese jets were just redesigned ME-262 and didnt even fly until after the bombing of Hiroshima.

Actually you are the one who should learn some history. The Me262 was flying in 1939 four years before we were able to reverse engineer it. Might I suggest wikipedia as a good place for you to start. You also probably think we Americans invented rockets too.

 

[414Flyer]

Actually you are the one who should learn some history. The Me262 was flying in 1939 four years before we were able to reverse engineer it. Might I suggest wikipedia as a good place for you to start. You also probably think we Americans invented rockets too.

We reverse engineered an ME-262 in 1943?? Say what? Did Nazi Germany just hand one over to us. Funny how the the P-80 looked nothing like it, and nobody but you claimed we had to reverse engineer the ME-262 in order to make a jet.

Everyone knows about the ME-262, I even mentioned it in my previous posting. Yes, it came out before the Bell P-59 and Lockheed P-80. And no, the ME-262 was NOT flying in 1939, it first flew in 1942. You are thinking of the Heinkel 178 which flew in late 39. Our P-59 program began before we were ever even in WW2.

But, unless there was some kind of time machine around then, obviously we were making jets before we got ahold of any ME-262s or their engineering data.

Now again, tell us exactly what I posted that was not correct. I think its you who needs to bone up on their history.

Oh, BTW, Nazi Germany DID use much of Goddard engineering data in their rocket program.

 

[cjdriver]

Oh, BTW, Nazi Germany DID use much of Goddard engineering data in their rocket program.

Ooh, saw that coming.

If you get a chance, go look at the V2 at the Smithsonian, they were brilliant engineers and craftsman. If Hitler hadn't been so crazy, we'd all be speaking German right now.

 

[tomgoodman]

Bet they had lots to talk about

Dr. Hans von Ohain, who had become chief scientist for the AF Propulsion Lab at Wright-Patterson, welcomed his co-inventor of the jet engine, Sir Frank Whittle, to their first meeting in 1978. Interestingly, it was held in Building 18.

 

[Ill Mitch]

Actually you are the one who should learn some history. The Me262 was flying in 1939 four years before we were able to reverse engineer it. Might I suggest wikipedia as a good place for you to start. You also probably think we Americans invented rockets too.

I don't know whether to laugh or smack you upside your idiotic head.

 

[pilotyip]

Not sure of that

Our P-59 program began before we were ever even in WW2.

It would depend upon upon when you define getting involved in WWII. By Dec 1940 FDR had all but declared war on Germany. The P-59 might have been a pipe dream at that time, but from what I have read, work did not start on it until later in the going to war cycle. The B-36 intercontential Bomber was not flown until well after WWII, but it was named in the AWPD-1 in August of 1941. A point paper written by Robert Lovett in the fall of 1940 resulted in a shift to auto companies building bombers. Starting in Jan of 1941 US aircraft production was all about heavy bombers. This resulted in the building of the Willow Run Airport and Bomber Factory to build the B-24