UPT Bases

[Merlin'05]

Is there anywhere I can find information that tells which SUPT bases have T-37s or T-6s and which are scheduled to transition in the next year?

I'm interested in a T-37 base.

I know Sheppard has T-37s and will for a while, but I have no chance to get an ENJJPT slot as well as having no desire. I know Moody and Randolph both have T-6s. I've done some searching on the net, but haven't been able to find anything that gives current or future information.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Spur]

Moody is a T-6 base.
Laughlin is all or nearly all T-6.
Vance will begin transitioning to the T-6 this year in the late spring or summer. I think the transition will take around 18 months - 2 years to complete.
Columbus follows Vance (Guesstimate of 2007).
Then Sheppard.

 

[Merlin'05]

Thanks. Vance would be my first choice. I was hopping they would transition a little later. If I go to Vance, could I chose which I fly, or will they just put me in one or the other?

Not all that big of a deal, but I've wanted to fly T-37s for quite a while--might as well put that dream sheet to use.

 

[RedDogC130]

Vance will have 37s for awhile. The trasition there is slow.

 

[ExAF]

You most likely will not get a choice of what you fly. Your class will fly whatever platform the AF assigns. Good Luck

 

[BeechScrub]

To fly the Tweet, your best bet is Columbus. They won't start their transition until Vance is almost done. Excluding Sheppard, they are the last to transition. I disagree with ExAF on having a choice on where you attend UPT. When our assignments came out, most people received their first choice, and almost everyone at least got their second.

 

[RJP]

First of all: no desire to go to ENJJPT? What's wrong with you boy? It's the best training you'll ever have....for fighter guys.

Secondly: Your dream sheet includes a driving desire to fly a cessna made in the 50s that makes dogs howl for miles and smells like fifty years of vomit and JP8? I'm surpised the AF psychologists haven't caught up with you yet.

Third: Aren't all the SPS Tweets owned by the Luftwaffe? Do they actually have plans to replace them with T-6s too?

Dude, just be happy to go. Worrying about what you might fly in UPT is the least of your worries.

 

[TonyC]

First of all: no desire to go to ENJJPT? What's wrong with you boy? It's the best training you'll ever have....for fighter guys.

Merlin'05: Be prepared to deal with this type of misinformed arrogance. Professionals can check their egos at the door.

Secondly: Your dream sheet includes a driving desire to fly a cessna made in the 50s that makes dogs howl for miles and smells like fifty years of vomit and JP8?

In their 45 years of operation, they've had far more Jet-A, Jet-A1, JP-4 and whatever else the FBO had than they'll ever have of JP-8. I doubt the fresh vomit in the T-6 smells any better.

Dude, just be happy to go. Worrying about what you might fly in UPT is the least of your worries.

I don't see worry. He's being asked to state his preferences, and he's trying to gather information to make intelligent choices. Have you ever been through that process, or does the fighter-pilot ego exclude that?





Merlin'05: Good luck. The Tweet is a fun airplane.


Just out of curiosity, why would you choose Vance over Columbus?

 

[RedDogC130]

Not if they go to T-44/TC-12

 

[Merlin'05]

Thanks for the help. I tried to go onto another forum, but got the same types of replies as RJP. Columbus will be choice number one now with Vance second. I had wanted Vance because I have family in the area--other than that, no real reason.

Yes, I know that the T-6 will get me more into the glass cockpit mindset. I don't think (and from very limited amounts of my own experence with glass cockpits), I have no problems with glass cockpits over the old guages I usually fly with--I actually find them much easier to use, they make more sense to me, and I can understand what's happening more than with the old stuff, especially in IFR situations. (remember, we're the video game generation...).

I just want to fly the Tweet and have for quite a while. I won't be disappointed though if I don't.

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[Merlin'05]

Any legitimate reason? I can't help but see possible bias with the avitar.

 

[TonyC]

Stay away from Mississippi... stay far far away....

Hey, I liked Columbus. Any place with a Pizza Hut, a Malco Theater, and a women's college can't be half bad.


(OK, so there were a coupla guys that bullied their way into the women's college, errr, I'm sorry, university, and kinda ruined the idea of a Women's University. But still, the ratios are in your favor... I've heard the library at University of Alabama is a good place to study on weekends, too. (No, I didn't - - I just heard.))

 

[AxisVDP]

Yeah, Columbus is the smallest base I've ever seen, and the town - jeez.

 

[HueyPilot]

the T-6 is going to have you much better prepared to make the glass cockpit transition to either T-1's or the T-38C for advanced

Sure, go fly the T-6 to "better prepare you", then you'll wind up in a C-130E with WWII-era avionics!

No, really, don't worry about the whole "glass cockpit" thing. I flew the Tweet then went to the T-1 (I guess there must be something wrong with me too RJP!), and I had no problems learning the new layout. Just a different way to look at things. You'll figure it out.

In any case, I had a love/hate relationship with the Tweet. It's a fun airplane, even if it's not the hot rod the T-6 is. And I felt a bit nostalgic flying something that every Air Force pilot since the 1950s trained in.

On the other hand, it's hot in the cockpit during the summer months...and I think that led to many folks getting sick. Sure the G's are new to a student pilot, but I believe most students could handle the G's much better if they weren't dehydrated and sitting in a 110 degree cockpit.

And while you do have some leverage in which UPT base you'll go to, once you get there, if that base has split T-6/T-37 flights, you won't have any control over which airframe you get. It all depends on timing.

At Laughlin, for a while they had a T-6 squadron and a T-37 squadron, and classes alternated between the two. So if you show up and the next class is scheduled to be a T-6 class...well, then you're flying the mighty Texan II.

 

[RJP]

Ah, Tony and Huey,

Just the responses I'd expect from guys that never flew single-seat and instead got helos and tankers. Whatever. Used to be that guys worked their asses off to get to SPS to get a fighter. Times have changed and now they seem to be more worried about cool glass cockpits and what the Columbus, MS nightlife is like.

Bottom line. Be happy you GET to UPT.

 

[Jayjinks]

Columbus

You should try to go to Columbus if you really want to fly the Tweet. I wanted to fly the Tweet while I was at the zoo, but believe me you'd be better off flying the T-6. The Tweet was fun to fly during the formation phase, but otherwise it's a gas guzzling noise maker.

USAFA C/O 2003
Columbus SUPT 05-02

 

[freddriver]

Although I cant read his thoughts, I think RJP was just reliving in his mind the fun he had at Sheppard. As an ENJJPT grad and an ENJJPT IP, you can tell from my picture that the glorious drawdown of the early 90's changed my career path just a bit. No worries, though. I love FRED and the life it has given me.
Back to the issue at hand, I had an AWESOME time at ENJJPT because the the European contingent (they outnumber the Yanks) just wouldn't put up with some of the BS Air Force rules. I remember when the ASEV struck and they looked at our programs. They asked "Why aren't you complying with such and such" We would just show them the front of the regulation that said the ENJJPT Steering Committee took presidence. It was a beautiful thing. We didn't trip-turn students, our cross counties left on Friday and flew back on Sunday. We didn't fly on Saturday, so partying/skiing was on the menu.
Regardless of the location you choose or gets chosen for you, have a ball. You will never work so hard or have as much fun and camaderie (sp) as your year at pilot training. Enjoy!
BTW, did they really get rid of the Form O-96??? Fast neat average...

 

[Merlin'05]

BTW, did they really get rid of the Form O-96???

Yeah, for the most part. Every once in a while, they magically appear on the tables. The Air Force is trying to kill the old days and doing a pretty good job of it. Our class painting has Bring Me Men on it. Because of that, they will not allow it on base one those words are painted on. In order for it to be accepted by the academy, they need to make a digital copy, take out the BMM, and put in the new stuff. 05 was cheated out of a lot of stuff 04 and before did, but for the most part, it was still a four degree year. After 06, its gone and no one will remember what it was like. Sad really.

I know that was off topic. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Yahtzee]

Ah, Tony and Huey,

Just the responses I'd expect from guys that never flew single-seat and instead got helos and tankers. Whatever.

RJP,

Did you ever consider Huey passed on the chance to fly 38s like many others? And by the way he flew helos prior to joining the AF not as a result of a UPT assignment.

Wondering if you knew some guys graduated fourth in their class of 25 and "got" a tanker in 1993 while other folks graduated ninth out of 12 in 1996 and "got" an F-16. Whatever folks "got" particulary between 1991 and 1995 during the drawdown of the AF was often a result of what MPC had a surplus of training of at the time. The guy who graduated fourth in his class "choose" a tanker over a desk or a banked fighter, and yes their are plenty of ENJJPT grads who "got" tankers in 1995 since MPC was handed them out like candy at Halloween....six of them were in my class at Altus in the summer of 1995. Then the wave starting shifting back to what seemed to be "normal".

And did you ever consider some folks passed on fighters for humanitarian reasons like a family member with a medical problem while their son or daughter was in UPT? My dad got cancer three days into UPT. I graduated UPT, and my dad passed away three weeks later, just two days after I got to Robins AFB...a 45 min drive from my parent's and a bittersweet homecoming. Did I want a KC-135 first choice...no, but I'll take my tanker to Robins to be near my family in a time like this any day over the choice to fly a single seat anything just to feel good that I'm a fighter pilot. And no, I didn't pass on a fighter, but plenty of my friends in my UPT class did. I wonder if my experience might have been different had I been strong enough not to think about my dad during UPT and graduated higher in my class and gone to Luke instead. ??? I'm glad I'll never know the answer and therefore don't think about it.

Merlin05,

First of all congrats on getting the chance to go to UPT.

My .02, fly the T-38 if you have the chance and think you might want to fly a fighter as you can always switch to heavies later in life. The 38 is a blast to fly, and you will never get the chance to go from heavies to fighters if you choose that path. But if you ever have to make a choice between family or a cockpit, I'd choose family any day. Accordingly, if I were in your shoes, I'd pick Vance since you have family nearby...you never know if you'll be stationed near them anytime again, and you still may get the chance to fly the 37.

Don't pick a T-37,T-6, T-38, T-1, or T-44 because someone told you to do so. Ask other folks what they think about flying their KC-X, F-X, C-X or, T-X and choose your own path.

Yahtz

 

[HueyPilot]

What's for me is not for you

Just to set the record straight, I did indeed fly Hueys in the Army...and you don't "get" helos in the Army...that's all there is. I flew for the Army not out of desperation but because of family tradition. My father flew AH-1 Cobras, UH-1s and OH-58s and my grandfather flew Army fixed-wing and UH-1s. I don't know of too many other families who had three generations that flew the same model of aircraft (UH-1H).

Having lived around Army posts my whole life I got familiar with another aircraft...the C-130. They were common over most Army installations and I always thought it would be cool to fly one. Now I am flying Herks and I love the airplane.

And my track select "wish list" looked something like this:

T-1
T-44
T-38
UH-1

UH-1 was last simply because I had already "been there, done that" and didn't feel like going back through the entire helicopter training syllabus again.

Sorry, I just never had the urge to be a fighter pilot. Sure, I'd love to go take a Viper for a spin, but as for the job itself? No thanks. As a kid I wanted to fly fighters, but as I got older I realized there's a difference between flying fighters and being a fighter pilot.

Not digging on anyone who wants that career path...just stop digging on my choices.

 

[Grizz]

Who cares what you fly..you just can't get better than Del Rio by the Sea-O.
DLF 86-03

 

[RJP]

You guys are way too uptight.

 

[Swede]

Glass = overrated. If you can shoot a good approach with the tweet toilet bowl, then you can fly any panel designed after 1919. I applaud your decision to seek out this worthy primary trainer.

Pilot training went to hell when the first aircraft that was not a T-37 or T-38 became part of the program. Every USAF pilot deserves a shot in the T-38. The thought process was "If you can fly a '38, in a pinch you can fly anything in the inventory". It's true. The T-38 was and is a challenging jet to operate correctly. A bonus - it looks better than a buckeye, and chicks dig it when you go cross country.

 

[HueyPilot]

If you can shoot a good approach with the tweet toilet bowl, then you can fly any panel designed after 1919.

Exactly. Figuring out a glass cockpit is easy.

 

[spanky2]

CBM rocked...then...not sure about now.

Water skiing, fishing, hunting, multiple pizza buffets for starving Lt's, all-you-can-eat Ten Tom catfish for more starving Lt's, bad wx, easy xc to FL, had to buy beer on Sat cause you couldn't on Sun, the W, the list goes on...

CBM 81-08 and former Live Oak controller

 

[Tweetdrvr]

I agree with Yahtzee choose family anytime you get the chance, you never know when the AF will implement OP Deny Christmas for the umpteenth time. When I was AD AF, I was always pretty far from home so there was always a little pressure to make it home for the holidays which cost time, money and leave. Those that were a 6-10 hour drive from home could go home on any three day weekend or get home to family and still be in that vaguely defined local area pass and not leave zone over the Christmas to New Year's lull in the Ops Tempo without having to deal with airline hassles. That freed them up to do things they wanted like skiing and tropical trips when they took leave.

The glass in the T-6 is overrated. Take a look at the pictures on baseops.net of the instrument panel. The T-6 has digital representations of traditional analogue round dials. There are no Multifunction Displays, there is no flight director, it is all raw data flying. I struggled with the scan in the RJ and that was after having flown the T-6 as an IP for almost a year. The T-6 really won't help you adapt to the glass of the C-17 or any modern airliner. Yes it has a GPS, but the GPS is really not emphasized in the early phases of contact. You still have to stay in your area, clear for traffic in the pattern, fly the final turn on speed and do traffic pattern stalls and slow flight. No GPS can help you do that. When you go cross country, you can't load an approach or play with the green screen magic the little box provides unless you know where you are and where you are going to be in the next 5 minutes unless the plane is trimmed and you have SA. You can learn to work an FMS/INS/GPS nav system in follow on training when you know how to fly a plane and talk on the radio, you can't get to follow on if you don't learn the basics. The T-6 has a lot of capability that is not used in primary, GPS being one of them and fuel efficiency to do more complicated longer T-1 type missions or longer more complicated 4 ship formation training being the other. If we go to a modified UPT where the T-6 is used for an intermediate phase before going to T-1s or 38s then we have already spent the money for a capable trainer. Just as a side note, the T-6 can do nearly everything. The RAAF uses the PC-9 for their entire pilot training program then sends graduates straight to follow on training for their major weapon system.

The Tweet is tried and proven. The T-6 is new and shiny. But what matters is how hard you work, chairfly and bond with your classmates. You only get out of UPT what you put into it. Both airplanes have their merits and lessons to teach fledgling aviators.

Go to Vance, be close to family and whatever happens is fate, grab it by the stick and rudder pedals and tame the beast, you will do fine.

Good luck and fly safe.

 

[psysicx]

It sucks for the helo guys.Being a Tweet IP they have a couple thousand hours jet pic which looked good for the airlines.

 

[Jax12]

For what it's worth

I have a few friends who started tweets last year during the summer. All of them said that they would have preferred to have flown the Texan solely because of its air conditioning.

 

[hawg2hawk]

Ah, Tony and Huey,

Just the responses I'd expect from guys that never flew single-seatandinstead got helos and tankers. Whatever. Used to be that guysworkedtheir asses off to get to SPS to get a fighter. Times havechanged andnow they seem to be more worried about cool glass cockpitsand what theColumbus, MS nightlife is like.

Bottom line. Be happy you GET to UPT.

I agree with the last sentence. Not so much with the first one.
As a side note, if your community has a D-model, I'd take it easy on the single-seat talk.

 

[RJP]

I agree with the last sentence. Not so much with the first one.
As a side note, if your community has a D-model, I'd take it easy on the single-seat talk.

Point taken. But actually the community only had an A model. The only true "single-seat" jet.