UPS sees FDX/USPS deal as Antitrust

[penguin22]

...new approach because of what the Department of Justice and the government lawyers told them some 7 years prior. I see no hypocrisy, I see learning and evolving from everyday events...

I can understand your point also

 

[belchfire]

Yeah, you forgot to mention this is a very old news article - 7 years or so. At the time UPS felt the competition was unfair and 'complained' to the government. When told their complaint was not valid they - you guessed it - learned from their failed attempt. Can you really blame them?



Ps. Glad you are ok!

Thanks-been a little rough around here lately...

I don't really blame them-it's a way to elimnate competition-and get paid to do it! I'm also feeling a little grim about all the Airborne, ABX and other guys that are getting hosed.

Seems though that outfits that make agreements with DHL/DPWN end up getting the short end of the stick at best!

 

[eatme]

...new approach because of what the Department of Justice and the government lawyers told them some 7 years prior. I see no hypocrisy, I see learning and evolving from everyday events...

Full disclosure, I'm Brown myself but not a big supporter of the deal (I think it'll hurt us further down the road). Needlessly to say, I also feel horrible for the Astar/Abx employees...

How do you think it will hurt Brown?

 

[shooter]

How do you think it will hurt Brown?

I think the only way it will hurt brown is if they are masterminding a DHL takes international UPS takes domestic arrangement. If you guys fly it to a gateway and they fly it the rest of the way all over. Who knows what these guys are cooking up, but past experience says it is not good for the employees.

Have you guys heard any rumors about the negotiations over at Worldport? Rumor at the Hoot says brown has walked away twice already because of DHL's unreasonable demands. Brown is in the driver seat in this whole deal, which is good because DHL screws up EVERYTHING via DPWN. I had it described to me once that if you took a coin and flipped it to make a decision, you would come out with more correct decisions than DHL has made since the Airborne purchase. Like they had a double-sided coin with tails, and they keep calling heads.

If there is no other international deal in the works you guys come out golden. You would have eliminated the 20+ year #3 player (Airborne Express) through the incompetence of DPWN buying DHL and now paying you to take it all away. It bites for all of us on the ABX/Astar side to no fault of your doing. It was all DHL/DPWN. Don't let your guard down though. These guys think less of the workers than the toilet seat in their corporate restrooms.

 

[AV80R]

How do you think it will hurt Brown?

Well, I have a few friends working for the German side of the DHL and based on their stories I think DHL is much more cunning and vicious than UPS realizes.

Also, I fear that one day DHL, UPS and maybe an Asian airline (Air Hong Kong for example) will carve out their territories and while we'll be flying DHL stuff here, the DHL will be flying our stuff in Europe and then the two of us would use the Asian airline to fly our stuff in that market.

I know, some people say I'm a (nightmare) dreamer but I'm not the only one...

 

[shooter]

ABX and Astar are being shut down by DHL rather than fix what is wrong with their system. Just so everyone knows the class DHL chooses to represent the company with clean cut, sharp dressed personnel that respect each customer like they would want for themselves look no further than Bubba:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUNxrgVR3Tg&feature=related

Not that Bubba would know what the heck I am saying, but his job is soon to disappear as well. We are going through it in Wilmington Ohio right now.

You can read all about it in the St. Louis newspapers and see it on their TV’s; Budweiser will be sold to InBev. I have heard the workers concerns that as soon as cuts need to be made, it will be American workers that are getting the axe. Can we tell them something about what will happen when their new foreign owners look to cuts costs Wilmington? It is a World Economy, Globalization, and the WTO securing a place for American workers in….hey that last part isn’t right…we are getting screwed. Well…..NOW I understand why people riot at the WTO meetings chanting about corporate greed taking advantage of workers around the world. Well they can soon look no further than their own back yard. It is spreading like a virus. America; The Two Class Society, coming to a neighborhood near you.

 

[AV80R]

... American workers that are getting the axe. Can we tell them something about what will happen when their new foreign owners look to cuts costs Wilmington? It is a World Economy, Globalization, and the WTO securing a place for American workers in….hey that last part isn’t right…we are getting screwed. Well…..NOW I understand why people riot at the WTO meetings chanting about corporate greed taking advantage of workers around the world. Well they can soon look no further than their own back yard. It is spreading like a virus. America; The Two Class Society, coming to a neighborhood near you.

It's probably the wrong time for me to be discussing this with you because all you ‘yellow’ brothers and sisters are hurting right now and are feeling abandoned. Which you are - by your management. I disagree however with your description of the "new world." Everything you just painted makes sense, however it goes both ways.

How come no one here complained when Mercedes was building plants in Alabama (or was it Georgia?) even though German workers were losing their jobs? ...or when Nissan outsourced to Tennessee and Toyota expanded in Kentucky? Or when Ford bought our Volvo and GM purchased Saab? I know for sure that many Swedish workers were laid off when Saab and Volvo became American owned; in fact they just announced more furloughs at Saab.

My point is that outsourcing goes both ways, sometimes we lose and sometimes we gain.

As far as you ‘understanding’ the rioters at WTO meetings – you sure about that? Those are not some kind of revolutionaries fighting for their jobs but rather communist and anarchist (their own labels) youth who’ve never held a real job in their lives and instead live like mafia thugs traveling from one town to another terrorizing local population by burning houses, cars, restaurants, etc. etc. Anything they perceive as a ‘capitalist’ symbol will be attacked.

What we’re witnessing today is a reversal of what we saw just a few years ago when millions of dollars invested by American investors (you and I and the form of our 401Ks) poured in their money into China, India, etc because their currencies were weak and ours was strong so things were super cheap to us. Now that the dollar has slumped you see the opposite, the Europeans and the Asian investors are flooding out market with their money and buying up all kinds of things, factories, businesses, etc because it’s cheap to them.

I believe in the American ingenuity, every time we faced a major crisis we turned it around and I think the same will happen now. Don’t know when and don’t know how and for some it might be too late but it will happen…

 

[shooter]

No worries discussing it with me, my mind is open. If you can change my opinion, I will read replies in earnest. We are in the infancy in the transformation to a global economy. It sucks for America because I, like you, believe in American ingenuity as well. There is a lot to be said about the sovereign nation our forefathers had built. We have built the best way of life in the world because of our history of hard work. But that way of life cost a bit to create and maintain. Lifestyles we all have been blessed to have a chance to work for because our great land and people are disappearing.

When foreign companies build here like you pointed out, it is because it is better for them and is in no way for the benefit of the American worker. American companies have a vested interest and work on ways to try and save the company. That is, until NAFTA. Now you see companies packing up and leaving for foreign lands where labor is cheaper. I have talked with locals in Mexico while on vacation and a decent job down there pays $5 American dollars a day. There is no way on Gods green earth that will buy you a piece of the American dream our early leaders designed us to have. (Hence my reference to the two class society) You have top corporate brass making the decision to outsource to one of those developing countries which eliminates good jobs here for lower pay there. They give themselves big fat bonuses and the workers are on the street. The new corporate culture in this global economy is lower wage (darn close to slave) labor, union busting, and longer work days for lower pay while executive bonuses have become obscene.

I have no problem with investing in America because I believe in our heritage. But when things get tough, you have to stand behind your workers and not bail like DHL is doing. Also like what the Budweiser workers fear may happen to them, and what I am sure you will be saying if open skies comes to America and cheap European pilots flood our skies putting even more strain on our aviation industry. Asia is short on pilots while we are finding ourselves with a surplus. If EU pilots with the likes of Ryanair flood our domestic market, who will fly American or United? Anyway I am drifting off course.

I just feel we are being sold out for lower wage labor for an increased bottom line without ANY regard to the American people. If UPS sees hard times, which they have in the past prior to owning an airline, they find ways to make it work not bail out. And as a result I feel this global economy is forcing America into a two class society. Guess which side we fall in being labor? You can disagree, it’s just my opinion. This will definitely be my last aviation job when I leave or it leaves me. The question is what industry, specialty or skill will I need to learn to not be victim to this transition our country is going through again.

 

[767pilot]

I just feel we are being sold out for lower wage labor for an increased bottom line without ANY regard to the American people.

How is DHL shifting contractors to UPS being sold out to lower wage labor? If anything, pilot labor costs go up and probably teamster sorter costs will as well. What goes don is the cost of inneficent infrastructure.

On an international scale, with the weak dollar, in many cases we as a country are beginning to become the cheap labor. Not as cheap as the Mexican you quote, but given efficiencies and productivity, quite competitive on the world stage.

 

[767pilot]

I think the only way it will hurt brown is if they are masterminding a DHL takes international UPS takes domestic arrangement. If you guys fly it to a gateway and they fly it the rest of the way all over. Who knows what these guys are cooking up, but past experience says it is not good for the employees.

Have you guys heard any rumors about the negotiations over at Worldport? Rumor at the Hoot says brown has walked away twice already because of DHL's unreasonable demands

That is EXACTLY what the plan is according to our president. We have a domestic only arrangement and however they have been getting it across the ocean is how they will still get it across the ocean. If it is Lufthansa for example it may ride to enter/exit our system at PHL instead of EWR, and if it is Polar/Atlas, we may see their planes fly right into our worldport to pick it up.

As for the negototiations, you are correct. I don't know how many times we walked out, or if we did, but the forst 6 weeks were rather fruitless. We needed info that DHL wasn't supplying. Turns out that they weren't being cagey, they just didn't have it. Things are back on track now and the end of August looks to be a good date to sign a deal although there may be some slippage.