Ups Pilots Blame Concessionary Capt Rates On Fedex Proposal

[Flybwoy]

It passes the logic test because the NMB is overseeing the negotiations at both UPS and FedEx. WHen our EB asked for XX dollars and the FedEx retirement the mediatior said "if you want the FDX retirement, then why don't you ask for FDX payrates", which were substantially lower than what UPS mgt was preparing to pay. We were days away from a TA last Dec with top Capt pay over 250 when FDX ALPA's lowball offer became known to the NMB.

It is stupid to point fingers. I am thrilled to be making over 100K my second year with this TA.

Thats because your a loser who really isn't qualified to be working at UPS so $100k your second year sounds great to a shmuck like yourself. Thats why your ass was in the pool so long. I cant wait to find out who you are. I know your in either the first or the second July05 class. I'll find out who you are soon enough you selfish, ignorant bastard!!!

 

[Flybwoy]

Someone please explain to me how a $33 an hour raise is "concessionary".

I don't have a problem with trying to get as much as you can (and what the company can sustain to give you for the long term), but to call our rates concessionary is just stupid.

You my friend need a lesson in finance. These rates don't even keep up with inflation. If you work for UPS and have attended a road show you would know this. Get informed!!

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Flybwoy,
My biggest worry is that the latest 300 new hires are ging to vote yes because most of them are FO's and they stand to get $40,000 in "Bonus" just for being on the property for 1 year. The other side of the coin is that these pilots are still in awe that they have the potential to make $100,000 a year, for year 2 pay of the proposed TA. Coming from where most of them did, that alot of money, and heII, "their just happy to be here"
What they dont understand is that UPS specifically did this to "Buy" their vote. Might seem crazy, but after they have a few years here on the new RES system or get shuttled out to ANC as their new domicile, or allowing the company the leverage that this new TA does as far as staffing and their upgrade will be 15 years + in the future, they might get a clue as to their mistake of voting yes. UPS is smiling to their faces and offering them in one hand, 40 grand, but in the other hand behind UPS's back is a knife that UPS is planning to stab them in the back with as soon as they sign yes to this TA... You can talk to these guys (and girls) as long as you want, but very few of them will listen...
I'm not saying that there are not good things in this contract, there are, but realize that there is alot of bad stuff as well and most the bad stuff (that the union is not talking about) greatly effects Jr, FO's the most. We can decide our own future here, but you have to willing to take a chance. 40 Grand is nothing to me when I think of the overall terms of this contract. I am willing to sacrafice that 40G to get a better contract for the long term.
The 98 contract went for the quick money and basically blinded everyone. Hell, who cares what a 4th year Capt makes right. We'll most of our money in this contract TA is being used to correct the mistakes of short sidedness of the pilot group in 98. 04, 05, new hires, Make sure you read the contract and ask many questions. You may be Domestic now, but come Jan, you could be Intl... Everything else matter most and 40G matter less of all...
The union is doing a great job at pointing out all the good things in this TA, make sure and look at the bad stuff as well. Here is the website that will point out the less desirable, day in, day out stuff that will effect you most all the time... http://ipaontop.org/

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Uh, ya....ok

Get something ridiculous and then give back half a few years later. No thanks.

As opposed to settling for something less and then giving back half a few years later anyway?

Negotiate every penny, work rule, benefit you can get when times are good. They will always be looking for givebacks when times get rough.

 

[pipejockey]

In my perfect little world a company like UPS would say "Well, we have more than enough willing to come for $26K but heck, we don't want you all eating Ramen noodles your first year, so we'll give you $50K". Unfortunately it ain't gonna happen.

Exactly!! A little basic figuring on my part...I took and added 30 grand a year to 200 pilots. I figure that is the average number of guys at 1st year pay at UPS historically and it comes out to 6 million more per year. That is chump change to UPS which had 42.6 billion in revenue and 3.9 billion in profit alone. As far as "more than enough willing applicants"...well look at companies like Focus, Southern, Centurion, etc with captains not even earning 6 figures! So UPS knows there are plenty of people out there at other companies who are more than able to get the job done that would work for less than 6 figures as senior captains at UPS, but UPS knows a contract like that would be struck down by those of you already there. I think if the union negotiators made it a point to demand a living wage for the 1st year guys, it would happen. Even Horizon 1st year Dash 8 pilots earn more than UPS. That is a travesty!

 

[pilotyip]

Green, not right now anyway, and I am sure the UAL DAL pilots felt the same way about unending profitibility.

 

[optimater]

I cant wait to find out who you are. I know your in either the first or the second July05 class. I'll find out who you are soon enough you selfish, ignorant bastard!!!

And then what, are you going to egg his flight bag? If you really want a piece of him, why don't you just PM him your name and contact information and you can have it out. Or would you rather call him out on FI and drop anonymous hatemail into his v-file while you hide behind your screenname. Talk about 100% IPA, this union makes me sick. You get a vote, and so does he. Deal with it.

 

[GuppyKiller]

deleted

 

[capt. megadeth]

You my friend need a lesson in finance. These rates don't even keep up with inflation. If you work for UPS and have attended a road show you would know this. Get informed!!

Um, I did go to a road show....but thanks for the advice.

You know, in our perfect little world, our pay would keep up with inflation. Newsflash! PEOPLE WORKING A LOT OF JOBS DON'T GET RAISES MUCH LESS RAISES THAT KEEP UP WITH INFLATION!

Do you know that only 3% of people make over 100K?

 

[capt. megadeth]

What they dont understand is that UPS specifically did this to "Buy" their vote. You may be Domestic now, but come Jan, you could be Intl

BB: I understand this completely....it was the first thought in my mind when I saw the TA rates and "bonus". Secondly, I really don't buy the notion that all of the junior people will be forced to international because of the TA's international rules. I have heard that int'l is the best gig going and a FO told me he made $180K last year with all the overrides, etc. I am not buying into the fact that all these guys will go fly 4 legs a night in a 757 domestically because they have to deadhead to SDF from ANC extending their day to 19 hours. If I am wrong.....you can say I told you so.
Also, please understand, we are not all in "awe". Yes, I can use 40K (I am sure you can too) but it doesn't mean I will vote for it because of that.
Cheers!

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Mega,

My point was not to say that every Jr person would be going to the Intl side as a result of this contract (possibly getting passed), What I mean was that just because you fill a seat now (Dom), doesnt mean that you may not choose to go to another seat (Intl) in say 2 years. ALL the rules apply, not just the ones that fit to your present seat.

I have read the TA, gone to two road shows and watched the CD that they have sent me. On the surface, this TA seems to have alot of good stuff in it, It troubles me why there is something inside of me telling me that this TA is not right or the best we can do for our group. (my sixth sense) I am sure you will do what you have to do. I know you and respect your professionalism. That being said, before you vote, do yourself a favor and try to forget about the hype and hoopla surrounding what the IPA has put out concerning this TA. Be open minded and go to TORO's site here is the link. http://ipaontop.org/ He has no axe to grind, hes not running for office, he is simply stating the facts as he sees them and trying to educate the pilot group about what is on the other side of trhe coin before you make your vote.. He is a very useful and knowledagble source as well as the people that worked with him. The Union/Company has only told you about the glass being half full, I think you should also think about the half that is not full...

I asked the NC specific questions relating to the "ambigious language" in this TA and I got reponses to those questions at the road shows only to find out that they gave me half truth answers. Some of what they said was true but more of the Neg details that related to my questions were left out. The parts that were left out were the things that effected the pilot group in a negitive way. Its that kind of stuff that worries me about what they are leaving out or not talking about.

Get educated, and tell you friends to do the same...

 

[boost]

Great website and very informative. It is amazing to see how low the pay for UPS has been compared to the other airlines and certainly compared to the profits. ...Is the new TA enough??

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Depends on who you ask... I think the pay is OK, but I feel UPS can and should do better. Everyother group here at UPS is paid very well for what thye do. Not us... Even if nothing else in this TA is changed after we vote it down, UPS should atleast make the pay good and retro (signing bonus) should be at a min 80/60/40, If its a true signing bonus, then make it a good one, not one that is less than what my retro would be...

For years the pay here has been bad, I mean really bad. Now all of a sudden, were on top, not because we got pay raises, but because everyone else took pay cuts. My standard for the pay scale is the same as DAL or UAL was when they were making money. UPS makes a lot of money and we should be compensated well for efforts considering the airgroup and Intl stuff is why UPS is making all these profits...

If the ********************ty work rules are going to be part of this TA, then pay me well for it and Ill shut up and do my work, but borderline good pay with ********************ty work rules is a NO vote from me, not just this time, but everyother time as well...

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Thats because your a loser who really isn't qualified to be working at UPS so $100k your second year sounds great to a shmuck like yourself. Thats why your ass was in the pool so long. I cant wait to find out who you are. I know your in either the first or the second July05 class. I'll find out who you are soon enough you selfish, ignorant bastard!!!

What the he11 is wrong with you? Everyone knows you are also uppercrust/Browntail/Guppykiller/freightnazi. What a loser you are creating a dozen different screen names so you can entertain yourself. You are a racist, bigoted, demented person. In another life I was in federal law enforcement. I still have friends there. Call my cell phone 1 more time and the FBI will be paying you a visit and I will inform our employer.

 

[FreightNazi]

What the he11 is wrong with you? Everyone knows you are also uppercrust/Browntail/Guppykiller/freightnazi. What a loser you are creating a dozen different screen names so you can entertain yourself. You are a racist, bigoted, demented person. In another life I was in federal law enforcement. I still have friends there. Call my cell phone 1 more time and the FBI will be paying you a visit and I will inform our employer.

Think again, junior. OBTW, enjoy being displaced to ANC!

 

[Uppercrust]

QUOTE] You are a racist, bigoted, demented person. In another life I was in federal law enforcement. I still have friends there.

Have they been paroled yet??

Call my cell phone 1 more time and the FBI will be paying you a visit and I will inform our employer.[/

What the ???? Don't confuse me with him. That is pretty funny about the FBI paying a visit.:laugh:

 

[brownie]

BBDC8
when u say signing bonus that means to me that company will give u this bonus if you vote for this contract, now if a capt or fo or fe they all have one vote why 80/60/40 since we all get one vote, unless capt's votes worth more which i don't think so since there are more fo's than capt's. If u talking retro then it's a different story but since u call it bonus keep in mind bonuses should be equal.

 

[Green Baron 737]

Brownie: The bonus is in lieu of the retro. The retro pay owed is about 2.66 years. Surely Captain's pay is more than FO pay therefore so is the bonuses. BTW it is 60/40/34 but I like your numbers better. The bonus/retro is not for a yes vote, it is what is owed and therefore should be paid. Then again you know that cause you work there.

BBDC8: Don't underestimate the FNG's. There aren't many of them that I have talked to that are blindsided by the quick 40k. I think this will be voted down but wouldn't bet the farm.
GB

 

[Flybwoy]

Um, I did go to a road show....but thanks for the advice.

You know, in our perfect little world, our pay would keep up with inflation. Newsflash! PEOPLE WORKING A LOT OF JOBS DON'T GET RAISES MUCH LESS RAISES THAT KEEP UP WITH INFLATION!

Do you know that only 3% of people make over 100K?

So go work there punk!! Its not about money! Its about work rules then money, idiot!!!

 

[Flybwoy]

What the he11 is wrong with you? Everyone knows you are also uppercrust/Browntail/Guppykiller/freightnazi. What a loser you are creating a dozen different screen names so you can entertain yourself. You are a racist, bigoted, demented person. In another life I was in federal law enforcement. I still have friends there. Call my cell phone 1 more time and the FBI will be paying you a visit and I will inform our employer.

Dude, I'm not a racist or a bigot. Last time I checked my ancestors were from the mother land. A little demented? Sure but more Just an idiot hater. And your and Idiot!!!