UPS or AirTran

[iaflyer]

"
3 am is for the following in my book:

- Sleeping

- Peeing

- Puking

- and Farking.
"/quote] People do all that stuff at the hub sort, what are you talking about!

 

[AV80R]

Hypothetically, if one had a choice of classdates, which would you pick and why?

Wow, I can’t believe I’d missed this thread, didn’t even know it was out there until now…

Well, as a former 717 driver (almost 2 years) I figured I should say something. I made the choice to jump citrus for the big brown and have no regrets. Had many misconceptions about freight flying and must say things are even better than I imagined. Lots of day flying is just one example (even for a very junior guy).

I’ll be glad to make more comparisons later for those who’re interested but after having read a few “less than friendly” comments here I wanted to post a quick reply to say that my choice was very logical based on the benefits, retirement, health insurance, schedules (in my view much better at Brown), type of equipment, stability, etc, etc, etc.

Yet the choice was not an easy one! Why? Because I loved my time at AirTran –there are tons of really great folks over there and working with them was simply fun. So in a nutshell, I have absolutely no regrets for jumping the ship, I think the pilot workforce here is truly top notch and I am loving the Brown lifestyle – but I disagree with those of you who say one must be stupid for even considering AirTran over UPS. I can think of at least 1,500 great reasons to work there (well, with very few exceptions ) and I will always wish them well and hope AirTran keeps growing. Here’s to my Citrus brothers & sisters…:beer:

 

[Heavy Set]

Flown nothing but people for 15 years and now freight..... getting my recall letter next month and Im going to use it as toilet paper and send it back to mother D in a UPS package with a note that says "what can brown do for you"?

I think that should answer your question eeeehhhh????

I think I remember your Delta rants, and I think most of them don't want you back either.

 

[Max Powers]

Least we not forget about ...twice a year or maybe more you get lucky with a FA....Of course she smokes a pack a day and has a good case of gout but hey baby its all good at da tranny

 

[waveflyer]

Everything's already been said- But this:

This type of Rivalry does in fact hurt us all at the negotiating table.

The pilot ego and need for validation of their choices and successes is a huge thing that can be played against us.

No one would agree- but if you follow the line of thinking all the way through=-- there are many of you that would rather be the highest paid at $100k than the lowest paid at a $150k. As long as you get to jerk off your pride- "My life is better than yours!"-everything is better.... As soon as any argument can be made that something different is better- you want to cut that pilot down... We should be comparing our lives to the lives and $$ of other professionals-

We get hired generally where we have connections- we shouldn't piss on each other for different choices or for not making it far yet-- Even if that person is a regional pilot-- we should be respecting ALL pilots and helping them gain leverage and a better life...

Who benefits when we get into all this ego over companies that don't care about us and that we have little control over?

 

[Networ-King]

I think I remember your Delta rants, and I think most of them don't want you back either.

Thanks for the kind words heavy.....and I do have a recall letter that proves you wrong...eeerrr.... I have a copy of a recall letter..... you know what I did with the original. Enjoy your lear 45.... good type to have.

 

[russtgol]

Hypothetically, if one had a choice of classdates, which would you pick and why?

That was an intelligent question... Of course Air Tran!!!!

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey AV8OR-

You sound like a class act. UPS's gain was our loss. Glad it worked out for you.

Blue skies, tailwinds, and schnocktails on the overnights!

TW

.

 

[AV80R]

Hey AV8OR-
You sound like a class act. UPS's gain was our loss. Glad it worked out for you.
Blue skies, tailwinds, and schnocktails on the overnights!

TW.

Thanks TY, appreciate it. I just got off the phone with my college buddy who was a 717 captain when he left for Fedex last year (we left about the same time). Also another Purple guy and former Citrus driver PMed me and said the same thing – logically our decisions made sense but by no means was it easy. We all had a great time at AirTran and wish everyone there the very best.

Ps. Long overnights are very schnocktail-friendly

 

[AFcitrus]

It's a legitimate question. Some people don't want to work at night, regardless of the pay. I declined a UPS interview years ago, because I didn't want to spend the rest of my career working graveyard. They can't pay me enough to live like that.[/quote

You freaking shmuck......

I love morons like you with your mentality. I've flown a total of 120 hours for the year and I won't pass 150 hours and make more then most FO's at Airtran flying 600-900 hours a year. And when I do fly at NIGHTS all I hear on the air is Cactus, Delta, Airtan, UsAir and Jetblue so be my guest and thank god you are so mighty that you turned down an interview with the trash haulers.....

Lets see... on top the above reasons.... hhhhmmm let me think


UPS 3rd Q results 1.04 BILLION NET PROFIT
Airtran 3rd Q results 4.3 MILLION DOLLAR LOSS


I thinK big brown wipes the big brown off of thier arse with 4.3 Million dollars worth of toilet paper a day. So Let me tell you what brown can do for you.... you ignorant plick.......


As for the original question....don't listen to idiots like this guy..... you can do any type of flying you want at UPS. Night time or not you don't have to kill yourself flying 900 hours a year for the next 30 years. We have sssooo many guys coming here from airtran its ridiculous..... stephanie is not a happy camper, cause she keeps losing pilots to UPS for a good reason. Do your homework and research the companies and then you'll see its a no brainer.......

I know many pilots at UPS. Most of them like it, but some of them can't stand the lifestyle and are only staying for the job security/money. Not that there is anything wrong with that but no amount of money in the world is worth it (in my opinion) if you don't like your lifestyle. I have one friend who went to the training dept to avoid being away from home so much. He still works the back side of the clock but prefers that to being gone.

It's funny how some people on here are so quick to make negative judgements about people because of their own desires/career goals. Take a step back and realize that maybe not everyone is looking for the same things in a job that you are "Networking". This person asked an intelligent question and expected an intelligent answer. But instead, in steps some pompous A$$ who thinks his company is better than everyone else's because the corporate culture/lifestyle happens to fit him best. I actually know of a pilot that left AAI to go to UPS and came back because it didn't fit him. And yes, AAI took him back - albeit at the bottom of the seniority list.

 

[AV80R]

I know many pilots at UPS. Most of them like it, but some of them can't stand the lifestyle and are only staying for the job security/money. Not that there is anything wrong with that but no amount of money in the world is worth it (in my opinion) if you don't like your lifestyle.

AFCitrus – the thing about cargo flying is that there are so many different kinds of flying here. I’ve flown at both carriers and have to say you can easily build a schedule very similar to what most guys have at Citrus. What I am trying to say is that if your friend really hated to be “away so much” one option could have been to bid reserve; it’s very different than reserve at AirTran (or any pax carrier) because you don’t get used as much. Here, “reserve” truly means what the name implies - you will be used only as a last resort.

So in a nutshell, you can have a very Citruesque schedule (yeah, I know it’s not a real word ) or you can fly mainly days or mainly nights or mixed or domestic or international, etc, etc. Obviously we have more choices here because there are several domiciles and aircraft types. If night flying really bothers you, we have plenty of day flying too.

However, I am not replying to you just to compare our schedules, etc, because frankly differences in that arena are not as significant as some people think. I know the Networking’s post really irked you and in all honesty I don’t really understand his “aggressive discussion style” either. Personally, if I ran into someone who had a choice of going to AirTran or to UPS and who needed some additional information before deciding, I wouldn’t call him/her a ”…freaking shmuck...”- instead I’d call him/her very lucky! I don’t know the guy but from what I’ve heard he’s a good guy; he just likes to make a point even if it means to call people and the places they work at nasty names every now and then. It’s all right; since you know some people at bigbrown, I am sure you know that most pilots here are very laid back and courteous as well.

I actually know of a pilot that left AAI to go to UPS and came back because it didn't fit him. And yes, AAI took him back - albeit at the bottom of the seniority list.

This must have been a while back – I’m not questioning what you’re saying, I just haven’t heard that before; but I’m happy that it worked out for him in the end.

Wishing y’all strong tailwinds (max 10 knots of course! gotta keep it legal! ) in your TA negotiations!

 

[Ty Webb]

I just got off the phone with my college buddy who was a 717 captain when he left for Fedex last year (we left about the same time). Also another Purple guy and former Citrus driver PMed me and said the same thing

If one of those purple guys is "B.T", he is definitely missed . . . . .!


TW

 

[Networ-King]

I know many pilots at UPS. Most of them like it, but some of them can't stand the lifestyle and are only staying for the job security/money. Not that there is anything wrong with that but no amount of money in the world is worth it (in my opinion) if you don't like your lifestyle.

AFCitrus – the thing about cargo flying is that there are so many different kinds of flying here. I’ve flown at both carriers and have to say you can easily build a schedule very similar to what most guys have at Citrus. What I am trying to say is that if your friend really hated to be “away so much” one option could have been to bid reserve; it’s very different than reserve at AirTran (or any pax carrier) because you don’t get used as much. Here, “reserve” truly means what the name implies - you will be used only as a last resort.

So in a nutshell, you can have a very Citruesque schedule (yeah, I know it’s not a real word ) or you can fly mainly days or mainly nights or mixed or domestic or international, etc, etc. Obviously we have more choices here because there are several domiciles and aircraft types. If night flying really bothers you, we have plenty of day flying too.

However, I am not replying to you just to compare our schedules, etc, because frankly differences in that arena are not as significant as some people think. I know the Networking’s post really irked you and in all honesty I don’t really understand his “aggressive discussion style” either. Personally, if I ran into someone who had a choice of going to AirTran or to UPS and who needed some additional information before deciding, I wouldn’t call him/her a ”…freaking shmuck...”- instead I’d call him/her very lucky! I don’t know the guy but from what I’ve heard he’s a good guy; he just likes to make a point even if it means to call people and the places they work at nasty names every now and then. It’s all right; since you know some people at bigbrown, I am sure you know that most pilots here are very laid back and courteous as well.

I actually know of a pilot that left AAI to go to UPS and came back because it didn't fit him. And yes, AAI took him back - albeit at the bottom of the seniority list.

This must have been a while back – I’m not questioning what you’re saying, I just haven’t heard that before; but I’m happy that it worked out for him in the end.

Wishing y’all strong tailwinds (max 10 knots of course! gotta keep it legal! ) in your TA negotiations!

Av8or....

I say what I say, not because Im bitter or anything of the sort......eeeerrr.... unless it has to do with those GS w h o r e s at mother D while their brothers and sisters are on the street, but I digress.... I say these things because I actually used to work for Airtran as well....not a long time, but long enough to be able to compare both companies, financially, culture, schedules, equipment.....etc.... AND I did stay at a HolidayExpress last night. The people I call "shmucks" are the ones always saying UPS only fly at nights, or SWA flies 7 legs a day.... you know... the real informed pilots out there. You might not like the way I say it, but I guess thats FI for ya.....

blue side up... see ya around the ASC.....

 

[Lear70]

I'd say UPS in a heartbeat. FDX as well.

UPS reserve would be fantastic... I live 90 minutes south and would be able to sit reserve from home! FDX wouldn't be bad either - about a 40 minute flight or a 3 hour drive.

AirTran has a great group of people, some fun flying, easy trips (I'm flying 6 legs in 3 days crediting 17 hours with 18 hour overnights, completely commutable, went drinking with the crew last night and had a great time), and good days off (17 days off with 80 hours credit is my average, all commutable).

The outlook is good for the company, the T.A. mess aside so, if you really want to fly people, AirTran's a great gig.

If you want to fly boxes, make a LOT more money, with equivalent time off and great bennies,,, it's not rocket science. Luckily many of us have had the opportunity to do both, and I know which I would pick in a New York minute.

If you filter out the people who are bashing other companies (I don't trust advice like that - you never know if they had a bad experience that was unique to them and it's forever skewed their point of view), it starts to sound like Brown may be your answer...

Just my .02 cents.

Good luck! :beer:

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Hey AV8OR-

You sound like a class act.......

He is.

 

[Networ-King]

Yet another reason to go by way of freight..... can you imagine what the idiots are going to demand now, should there be the usual delays? How about a disclaimer that voids this kind of BS out of the northeast.......




New York passes 'passenger bill of rights,' first of its kind in US

Tuesday August 7, 2007 The New York legislature passed and Gov. Eliot Spitzer signed into law last week a "passenger bill of rights" outlining requirements for airlines during extended ground delays, making the state that is home to busy New York JFK and LaGuardia the first in the US to act on passenger complaints of poor customer service.
Largely in response to the much-publicized incident in which JetBlue Airways passengers were forced to stay on parked aircraft at JFK for up to 10 hr. during an ice storm (ATWOnline, Feb. 21), the new law claims to cover flights at New York airports and mandates fines of as much as $1,000 per passenger for carriers that fail to comply, although airlines question whether it is enforceable under federal law.
The law requires carriers to provide food, water, clean restrooms and fresh air to passengers stranded on aircraft for more than 3 hr. It also requires airlines to provide passengers with a phone number to register service complaints and establishes an "office of airline consumer advocate" within the New York state government.
"This law establishes much-needed consumer protections that will help guarantee greater passenger safety and comfort when severe delays impact their travels from New York airports," Spitzer said. New York State Sen. Charles Fuschillo, the bill's primary sponsor, added: "This first-in-the-nation law will ensure that stranded passengers are. . .not held hostage on delayed flights without basic amenities."
An ATA spokesperson said the organization is "disappointed" by the new law and believes it is "preempted" by federal statutes, adding, "We will review our options, including possible legal challenge."
The Coalition for an Airline Passengers' Bill of Rights, which is lobbying the US Congress to include passenger rights provisions in FAA reauthorization legislation, praised "New York's tough new airline passenger rights law" and called on Congress "to finish the job for all travelers nationwide." The group wants Congress to mandate that airlines allow passengers to leave aircraft after a ground delay of more than 3 hr., something the New York bill does not do and that carriers have opposed strenuously.
"Legislating something with fixed time limits is just unpractical in terms of day-to-day operations," Delta Air Lines COO James Whitehurst told reporters last week in Washington.

 

[AV80R]

I'd say UPS in a heartbeat. FDX as well.

UPS reserve would be fantastic... I live 90 minutes south and would be able to sit reserve from home! FDX wouldn't be bad either - about a 40 minute flight or a 3 hour drive.

AirTran has a great group of people, some fun flying, easy trips (I'm flying 6 legs in 3 days crediting 17 hours with 18 hour overnights, completely commutable, went drinking with the crew last night and had a great time), and good days off (17 days off with 80 hours credit is my average, all commutable).

The outlook is good for the company, the T.A. mess aside so, if you really want to fly people, AirTran's a great gig.

If you want to fly boxes, make a LOT more money, with equivalent time off and great bennies,,, it's not rocket science. Luckily many of us have had the opportunity to do both, and I know which I would pick in a New York minute.

If you filter out the people who are bashing other companies (I don't trust advice like that - you never know if they had a bad experience that was unique to them and it's forever skewed their point of view), it starts to sound like Brown may be your answer...

Just my .02 cents.

Good luck! :beer:

Some of the best advice I've read in a long time! I loved my time at AirTran but am very happy at UPS. I can see why someone would want to work at either carrier; I would wish him or her very strong tailwinds no matter which airline he or she had chosen.


Originally Posted by Ty Webb
Hey AV8OR-
You sound like a class act......
Originally Posted by FlyFastLiveSlow
He is.

Thanks TY and FFLS! I’ll start addressing you CFFLS very soon!

 

[AV80R]

Av8or....I say what I say, not because Im bitter or anything of the sort......eeeerrr.... unless it has to do with those GS w h o r e s at mother D while their brothers and sisters are on the street, but I digress.... I say these things because I actually used to work for Airtran as well....not a long time, but long enough to be able to compare both companies, financially, culture, schedules, equipment.....etc.... AND I did stay at a HolidayExpress last night. The people I call "shmucks" are the ones always saying UPS only fly at nights, or SWA flies 7 legs a day.... you know... the real informed pilots out there. You might not like the way I say it, but I guess thats FI for ya.....blue side up... see ya around the ASC.....

Well, obviously we must have agreed on some things since we made a similar decision when it came to leaving Citrus for Big Brown. I made my decision and am very content with it and I know you’re pretty happy with your decision as well.

However, while I try to understand why other pilots might have different priorities than you and I do - you seem to think that “our” way is the “only” way - at least that’s my perception when I read your post. Anytime you call someone a name – you’re effectively ending the debate and turn it into a “mine’s bigger” competition.

I do agree with you that many pilots on the pax side have lots of misconceptions about cargo flying (heck, until fairly recently so did I) and many have misconceptions about SWA schedules as well. I think those pilots might be misinformed – but they definitely aren’t schmucks, or idiots, or whatever name you’ve used in the past. Personally, I don’t care how much I might disagree with someone on pretty much anything – I’ll never call them “w h o r e s” or other similar names. I mean what’s the point? You’re not “converting” them into thinking otherwise; all you’re doing is putting an end to the debate and turning it into a mud-fest; I’d rather debate than throw stones and I think we all can do better, that’s all.

Sometimes it's easier to make a point using someone else’s words. I'll try that by explaining what I just said using "Networking" Oxford dictionary!

I hope I get it right, here it goes:

“Thanks alot you d!ck ” for avoiding name-calling, I mean “this kind of BS” will NOT “Keep these skybus idiots off everyones jumpseat” NOR will it “keep them from growing like a huge zit on your a s s.” So in a nutshell “Who gives a fuk now a days” which airline they prefer to work at as long as they are happy? Why don’t you let them “go fuk (themselves) with (their) vast experience...(those)...freaking pr!ck(s)”

Did I translate it all right?
We agree on most stuff, it’s just the presentation part we disagree on…


Btw. I stayed at Red Roof last night :laugh:

 

[Networ-King]

Well, obviously we must have agreed on some things since we made a similar decision when it came to leaving Citrus for Big Brown. I made my decision and am very content with it and I know you’re pretty happy with your decision as well.

However, while I try to understand why other pilots might have different priorities than you and I do - you seem to think that “our” way is the “only” way -Wrong....never said that our way or my way is the only way. In this time and day of aviation, I believe it's alot more stable then the pax world.... at least that’s my perception when I read your post. Then you misunderstood my point. Anytime you call someone a name – you’re effectively ending the debate and turn it into a “mine’s bigger” competition. Unless you've already debated about this topic till you're blue in the face and the same people, still THINK that we fly at nights only and SWA pilots still do 7 legs a day.

I do agree with you that many pilots on the pax side have lots of misconceptions about cargo flying (heck, until fairly recently so did I) and many have misconceptions about SWA schedules as well. I think those pilots might be misinformed – but they definitely aren’t schmucks, or idiots, or whatever name you’ve used in the past. Personally, I don’t care how much I might disagree with someone on pretty much anything – I’ll never call them “w h o r e s” or other similar names. Why not? That is exactly what they are..... YOU DON'T PICK UP OPEN TIME NO MATTER WHAT, WHEN YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS ARE ON THE STREET AND THEN BRAG ABOUT IT AND USE THE SAYING...."WELL THATS PART OF BEING JUNIOR". Sorry.... I don't digest that very well and I'll call a spade a spade cause there is no debating with someone like that. What they need is the old teamsters blanket party and then maybe they'll change their mind. I mean what’s the point? You’re not “converting” them into thinking otherwise; all you’re doing is putting an end to the debate and turning it into a mud-fest; I’d rather debate than throw stones and I think we all can do better, that’s all.

Sometimes it's easier to make a point using someone else’s words. I'll try that by explaining what I just said using "Networking" Oxford dictionary!

I hope I get it right, here it goes:

“Thanks alot you d!ck ” for avoiding name-calling, I mean “this kind of BS” will NOT “Keep these skybus idiots off everyones jumpseat” NOR will it “keep them from growing like a huge zit on your a s s.” So in a nutshell “Who gives a fuk now a days” which airline they prefer to work at as long as they are happy? Why don’t you let them “go fuk (themselves) with (their) vast experience...(those)...freaking pr!ck(s)”

Did I translate it all right? You are my hero.....
We agree on most stuff, it’s just the presentation part we disagree on… I used to be level headed, but you'll have to excuse me if the bitterness oooozzzzeeeezzzz out once in a while and a spade gets called a spade.


Btw. I stayed at Red Roof last night :laugh:

You D!CK.....