UPS new hire Part II

[jhill]

DAL737FO

Not absolutely positive (chime in anytime Chase) but I'd be really surprised if a speeding tik in '97 would prevent you from getting called by SWA.

I know guys who've been interviewed/hired with worse than an eight year old speeding ticket.

Obviously, there's tons of apps, and they may just not have gotten to you yet for any number of reasons.

Good luck!

Certainly had them on mine

 

[Big Beer Belly]

This is a SLEAZY thread!

Purpledog,

It must be nice to hold everyone up to such a high standard. Gee, you’re Mr. Perfect. Im glad that you and Jesus walk on the same water. I posted this before and Ill post it again to maybe give you (Mr. Perfect) some enlightenment. UPS hired many furloughees in the early 90's. They all gave UPS their word that they would stay, Most if not all went back when recalled. Screwed UPS and lied too. UPS said it would never hire Furlougee's again. What does this mean?



1. The pilots from the 90's that lied to UPS about staying and then left, where your out cry about them. If were talking about preferential treatment it seems to me that you want to give this preferential treatment to your male buddies who have serious integrity issues and of course cry foul if someone tries to extend the same courtesy to a female.



2. UPS eventually decided to hire Furlougee's from the massive pilot pool that exist out there today. Yes, they have been burned before, but UPS is a decent place that believes in forgiveness. We’ve got people here with DUI's, No college degree, etc.... If UPS thinks it ok to hire this person and others who have a few skeletons in their closet. Good for them... I flew with her at ASA and now at UPS, believe me, she’s got Ba11s and she’s a good stick. I don’t know many men that could have moved on like she did under such criticism and not break down.



3. Where do you stand on the whole Clinton thing? I’m a Republican and I agreed with the Impeachment thing, but I have learned to live with the fact that he lied, still maintains the lie, and made a mistake. Now he should be allowed to move on with his life. I hope he’s the next UN guy... Good for him...



4. I’m glad she’s here; it seems that Big Purple might be a little hard on her and Id hate to be at a place that operates like that. Look at all the post here on Flight info, have you seem one UPS person that is upset about this... NONE!!!! We welcome her with open arms; she made a good decision to come to a place where she could be welcome...



BBDC8

BRAVO BBDC8! This is sleaze ball thread and one of the times I'm embarrassed for our profession. I'm confident she'll be welcomed like all the other new hires.

The self-righteous crowd ought to take a moment and consider the skeletons in their own closet (cheating on exams, copying fraternity brothers term papers, underage drinking, "near" DUI incidents, drug "experimentation", sleeping with friends' girlfriends, aircraft "incidents", deliberate violation of flying regs because it was "fun" to be inverted at 100' and 600 kts, etc... ad nauseum) ... most of us have one or more similar "youthful indiscretions" and if made public would trivialize what the unnamed young lady did. Thankfully, most of us have not had our indiscretions blown up to nationwide attention where Senators and Congressman were engaged in heated debates over each lurid detail. If luck (or whatever you want to call it) not interceded at just the right time by providing an "understanding" cop or "friend", or simply no one caught you, many among our professional ranks would be absent.

 

[DAL737FO]

This thread has absolutely amazed me. I intentionally left out the individuals name and wanted a discussion about how it is possible for someone with a skeleton in the closet to be call for an interview before applicants that have none (none known by the public at large at least). Immediately people start throwing out bible verses and cliche comments. It's a valid question. Most of the people defending her know on a personal basis as a friend and fellow pilot. That is admirable to come to your friends defense. However I would ask those same people to step back from the situation and just use generic characters. I could care less what the person did. really. I have actually read her book. Did she do anything more or less wrong than a lot of other people in the military....No. However she did have the misfortune to mess with a women's husband and that woman wanted her prosecuted to the fullest. You see every one blames the Air Force. If you actually read her book you would find out that their hands were tied because of the woman scorned.

Now let's put that behind us and use a fictional character. Here is character number 1:

5,000 total time
3 type ratings
2,000 PIC turbine
No accidents or incidents
Military and Civilian flight experience
No speeding tickets, DUI or any other liabilities

Character number 2:

5,000 total time
3 type ratings
2,000 PIC turbine
No accidents or incidents
Military and Civilian flight experience
General discharge under honorable conditions

As an HR person, Chief Pilot, Director of Operations which applicant would you call for an interview?

There are thousands of character number 1's out there right now. So it would be like winning the lottery, Christmas and your birthday all rolled into one to get an interview and hired as character number 2 right now. So how does it happen this way? How is it that we have guys and gals out there right now with no black marks, however fair or unfair, on their records and not even coming close to getting the call.

As for the nimrods that say we all did (cheating on exams, copying fraternity brothers term papers, underage drinking, "near" DUI incidents, drug "experimentation", sleeping with friends' girlfriends, aircraft "incidents", deliberate violation of flying regs because it was "fun" to be inverted at 100' and 600 kts, etc... ad nauseum) Well sorry some of us did not do these things but I did spend six years of my twenty's in the Air Cav and still left the Army with an Honorable Discharge so it is possible.

 

[English]

As an HR person, I'd call the one that had a strong internal recommendation. PERIOD. A known quantity is always better than the unknown.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

There are thousands of character number 1's out there right now. So it would be like winning the lottery, Christmas and your birthday all rolled into one to get an interview and hired as character number 2 right now. So how does it happen this way? How is it that we have guys and gals out there right now with no black marks, however fair or unfair, on their records and not even coming close to getting the call.

Quit your poor me whining DAL737FO. Apparently you failed in your early childhood development to learn that life ain't fair. Get over it. "But johnny got a bigger cookie than me mom ... whaaa."

 

[DAL737FO]

Quit your poor me whining DAL737FO. Apparently you failed in your early childhood development to learn that life ain't fair. Get over it. "But johnny got a bigger cookie than me mom ... whaaa."

Another freaking tool. Yep failed and had to join the Army. If I had been a real man maybe I could have been a C-141 driver instead of jumping out of them. Grow up. I've basically made my bed but I have a lot friends serving honorably that want a shot. As for early childhood development I'm still trying, how about you.

 

[DAL737FO]

As an HR person, I'd call the one that had a strong internal recommendation. PERIOD. A known quantity is always better than the unknown.

I agree. If that recommendation is from a pilot since that is what the job entails. Now this is my personal opinion but a letter of rec from management, although nice, is not what is needed for a PILOT interview. Pilots should hire pilots.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I agree. If that recommendation is from a pilot since that is what the job entails. Now this is my personal opinion but a letter of rec from management, although nice, is not what is needed for a PILOT interview. Pilots should hire pilots.

DAL ... you're obviously clueless about the hiring process at UPS, yet comfortable enough to criticize it. A "shoot and ask questions later" mentality that I can't imagine has helped you in life.

I'm still struggling to understand your major hard-on over this person being hired. Most of us could easily imagine she is a smart individual who networked, established contacts and made a positive impression with someone in UPS management (could very well have been a flight qualified manager for all we know ... or hadn't you thought of that?). At any rate, she makes a positive impression with someone who feels comfortable recommending her for an interview. At the interview, she no doubt is impressive and is afforded an opportunity to explain her military service and her separation. The ... (now read this S-L-O-W-L-Y DAL so you can U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D this) ... PILOT who interviewed her (DING, DING, DING ... get that DAL? ...a pilot actually speaks to pilot candidates at UPS ... imagine that?) no doubt understood the bull$hit hypocrisy of her situation and dismissed it as a non-issue. All candidates are reviewed by a panel who must have all come to the same conclusion since she was hired.

As far as your hard-on over her employment, well why don't you quietly go relieve yourself ... I'm sure you're quite used to it in the "Air Cav". <g>

Cheer up DAL ... this isn't something to get your panties all wadded up about!

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

I can’t believe DAL, criticizing the process and he doesn’t even understand the process. Ill explain...

If you want to get an interview with UPS, This is what you must do:



1. Meet all the Technical qualifications as outlined on the UPSJobs.com website.



2. Have an internal recommendation... This is the most important one. No recommendation, no interview. Now there are levels of recommendations. Here is how the levels work.



a. Management LOR... The best LOR you can have. Why? UPS is ran by a system of managers, Managers (either flying or Box heads as we call them) are the ones that decide who works here. You interview consist of a HR Manager, a Flight Manager, and a different Flight Manager for the Sim. When your sitting in front of Joe Pilot Manager and he see a LOR from his good friend John Manager (either Pilot or not) They feel that this person has a vested interest in the companies success. Therefore it carries more weight. Its part of the way UPS does business, it’s in the UPS culture, it’s been that way since 1907 and it isn’t going to be changing anytime soon.



b. Line Pilot LOR... Great LOR to have, but unfortunately, it doesn’t carry as much weight here as it might somewhere else. Yes, we have a vested interest in the company’s success as well, but to UPS, we are the help and that’s all. The IPA has made great strides to get this attitude modified, but this is truly a Big Brown machine, and is resistant to change. If this type of thing is going to get your panties up your crack, this is not the place for you. You'd go nuts in the first year with all the "UPS" isms that they have stuck with for almost 100 years...



c. LOR from your buddy where you work... Nice to have, but worthless here...



d. How it really applies to a candidate... When I was trying to get hired here I waited for years, Had 3 LOR from Line Capts and was well qualed, still no call for an interview. It wasn’t until I got a LOR from a Manager that I got the call, I was in class 3 weeks later. See where this is going???



As far as your assertion DAL that we're all friends with that person we're all talking about. Your wrong, I worked with her at ASA, I use to see the way people whispered behind her back and laughed at her. Im not a band wagon type of guy. I don’t step on people to be popular. I take a stand. I probably have talked to her 5 times in my life. 3 at ASA in general conversation years ago and 2 times since she has been here at UPS. I’ve taken a stand in her defense because I’m not a hippo crate. I’ve done some stupid stuff in my life and I consider myself pretty lucky that I have been given a few extra chances by some really terrific people to prove myself as a "Good citizen" I’m just glad I didn’t have you sitting across the table from me when I was looking for a job...



Oh-yeah, I flew Helo's in the Army for 8 years, Only helos, no FW. I'll bet I even know you, PM if you want... Hey, give her a chance. At UPS, If you’re qualed, It’s all about you LOR... Nothing more...





BBDC8

 

[AV80R]

BIGBROWNDC8 = “I'm glad shes here, I have room in my heart for forgiveness and I think its important for us all that if we make mistakes in life, that we be given another chance to make amends and move on.”
hr2eternity = “As long as she (or anyone else who's made mistakes) can fly the jet, welcome aboard I say. Who are we to judge her or anyone anyway?”
UPSFO= “Most of us were fortunate enough to have a forgotten past! I suggest we extend the same courtesy to the young lady identified in this thread.”
Big Beer Belly = “I say good for UPS for seeing through the bull$hit of this hypocrisy!”
Boogenagen= “No quota, she had a good management rec and she is good people. Leave her alone.”


Don’t know the lady, don’t know the story; and even if I did, I’d still keep my nose out of it because frankly it’s none of my business. I believe most, if not all, quotes printed here were written by current/previous ups employees (at least that’s my guess). If so, I must say I find it really amazing, no I take it back, very admirable how they seem to be standing up for one of their own. I wish more pilots ( FAs & other airline employees too) were supporting each other. My hat is off for y’all. av80r

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Thanks Av8or,

Really thats what its all about. Looking out for each other. PILOTS!!! We all need as much help as we can get from eachother these days with all that has happened to us as a profession of late... Cya

Keepin it real...
BBDC8

 

[ChinaClipper]

I worked for UPS in college tossing boxes.....

I had an Honorable Discharge (VD?). They were SOOO a nal during the app process, I was tracking down refs, diplomas and numerous other tidbits it seemed like forever, TO TOSS BOXES. At the time, we were told NO MOVING VIOLATIONS, PERIOD, if you wanted to drive the brown truck. SIMPLY TO TOSS BOXES! As for pilots, I can't imagine UPS has LOWER ethical standards than those who TOSS BOXES! I can only think that a Discharge LESS than Honorable only is a symptom of a bigger problem, INTEGRITY! Now I am all for remaking ones self after a mistake, but anyone who knows the story also knows its more than a little "mistake" A little mistake is forgetting to put a stamp on a letter or putting vodka in a martini, instead of Bombay Saphire. This persons case was notorious to those of us on active duty at the time, Fug up, disobay a DIRECT ORDER, continue a pattern of wacky and immature behavior, then whine in public to pressure the AF to not throw them in the klink. Not exacly a DUI, is it? Standards? We don't need no stinking standards. I only hope UPS is so accomidating to people who may have had MUCH less mistakes on active duty, but couldn't get on 60 Minutes to pressure Uncle Sam for a better judicial outcome! This stinks to high heaven, but as its been stated beforelife ain't fair.....even is your standards are higher than someone elses! Remember; Reputation is what people think of you, INTEGRITY is what you have when no one is around.......cherish it...

 

[klhoard]

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I just wonder how happy the UPS Wives Club is with this news. . .
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[klhoard]

Hmmph. . . no answer for that one, eh?
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[LJDRVR]

Oh for crying out loud!

Look, I've been a huge critic of "she who must not be named" in the past. (Having served honorably and followed the rules without the benefit of a zoo education and commision, I resented somebody who didn't hold up their "end of the bargin".)

I read her self-serving book and could not believe somebody could be so dishonest with herself and the Air Force.

But here's the deal guys: SHE PAID FOR HER MISTAKES. She lost what could have been a fantastic career over her behavior. Instead of feeling sorry for herself and fading into obscurity, she pulled herself up by her bootstraps and worked her way into the civilian side of things. Got hired, upgraded, apparently did a great job. Now a bunch of you guys think she should continue to be punished because you don't think it's FAIR that she got the nod?

Are you guys honestly going to tell me we should be judging the merit of somebody we've never even met or flown with getting a job solely on the fact she made some stupid mistakes ten years ago that she already paid for with her career?

Good Luck to "she-who-must-not-be-named". I hope she has a great career at UPS.