UPS buys the old Emery Worldwide operation

[CCDiscoB]

I'm sure...

Are you SURE, or are you speculating?

...UPS has in their contract that they must fly all domestic volume, since the Menlo volume will soon be UPS volume, UPS pilots should fly all of it.

That's like saying since Delta owns ASA, Delta pilots must fly ASA aircraft, which is certainly not the case. What if they keep the operation under the Menlo name.

What is UPS's acft utilization rate? Can they operate out of Dayton, and fly their own schedule with the aircraft they have? There are a lot of aircraft going through Dayton every evening.

...domestic volume...

What about international volume?

 

[Rhoid]

They have about 20 odd 727s plus about a half dozen 8s parked right now. It will be interesting to see if UPS decides to bring the flying inhouse or keep it outsourced and face the certainty of problems with the IPA.

 

[Publishers]

missing

What am I missing? There was no Emery flying anymore for them to deal with. Menlo was a freight forwarding company that had some people supplying dedicated lift.

One thing that Tigers proved was that it is really difficult to merge heavyweight freight product with overnight time sensitive product. $200 million is not much of a purchase for a company like UPS so what am I missing.

My guess is that they leave it alone or put it together in a different program. As to the flying, they use outside transportation all the time of one kind or another. Too early to tell what will happen here.

 

[boomlrd]

no changes likely

Just talked to someone in the know out at UPS, he said no changes are likely, at worst there will be one or two UPS widebodies there in Dayton to pick up the added volume. Right now they usually sort about 2 millions lbs. a night at Dayton, it most likely will go to 3 million with UPS using the space. Still UPS likes cheap non-union labor, so unless the UPS pilots union gets some sort of legal injunction against this, it will just be the same. Express.net, World, Custom Air Transport, etc. will still handle the bulk of Dayton freight. Oh yea, Ryan is gone they no longer have a contract with Emery, it was all picked up by Custom Air Transport and Express.net. So who really knows? It will be a few years before UPS really makes serious labor changes there, unless they pay Tony Romeo (CAT owner) a large buyout on the contract, which doesn't make sense.

 

[Rhoid]

Here are exerpts from the UPS/IPA contract concerning scope, it seems that the contractors days or nights are indeed numbered.....

It is agreed that all present and future domestic flying on


​

aircraft with a payload weight of more than 12,899 lbs.​

including but not limited to, revenue flying, ferry flights,​

charters, training flights, test flights, or other utilization of​

Company owned or leased aircraft in and for the service of the​

Company, or any affiliate of the Company, shall be performed​

by crewmembers on the United Parcel Service Crewmember​

Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of​

this Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the​

Company and the Association, except as otherwise provided in​

this Agreement.​

It is the Company's intent to handle permanent


​

increases in volume through the acquisition of​

additional airlift capacity rather than subcontracting,​

and to utilize crewmembers on the United Parcel​

Service Crewmember Seniority List to the maximum​

extent possible as they are available and qualified.​

For the purpose of preserving work and job opportunities


​

for the crewmembers covered by this Agreement, the​

Company agrees that no work or services of the kind,​

nature or type, and including new operations, covered by,​

presently performed, or hereinafter assigned to the​

collective bargaining unit will be subcontracted,​

transferred, leased, assigned or conveyed in whole or in​

part, to any other person or non-unit crewmembers, except​

under circumstances described elsewhere in this Article.​

 

[de727ups]

Rhoid

That's great that you can quote the contract but if you knew anything about UPS, you'd know that they have been finding ways around our contract for years.

 

[767-300ER]

UPS will have difficulty violating the IPA's excellent scope clause here in the US.

I predict the contractors will not be flying UPS branded freight in 2005, given the clear language (posted above).

 

[Rhoid]

UPS will have difficulty violating the IPA's excellent scope clause here in the US.

I predict the contractors will not be flying UPS branded freight in 2005, given the clear language (posted above).

I shure hope that the IPA is able to take over all the flying out of DAY, I'd much rather see UPS grow internally and hopefully start to hire than see the contractors continue to fly that work.

 

[kevdog]

I shure hope that the IPA is able to take over all the flying out of DAY, I'd much rather see UPS grow internally and hopefully start to hire than see the contractors continue to fly that work.

That's because you don't work for those contractors. Good luck trying to get on with UPS at your current flight experience or even within the next 10 years.

Can anyone guess how quickly the 70 lb box limitation and flying no HAZMATs will get removed from the UPS contract?

 

[Rhoid]

That's because you don't work for those contractors. Good luck trying to get on with UPS at your current flight experience or even within the next 10 years.

Can anyone guess how quickly the 70 lb box limitation and flying no HAZMATs will get removed from the UPS contract?

Actually I do have an in at UPS, I'm well aquainted with a long time manager there, and he tells me that infact, they do fly some hazmat around.

My manager friend told me that once I get my flight time up he would personally walk my resume in to flight operations HR.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Rhoid,

Everytime I send my resume to UPS it's goes directly to flight operations HR. Hope your "in" at UPS is real cuddly with someone "in" flight operations HR.

Stop goading everyone with your "in".

Unless you are employed in the upper echelons of UPS the only thing that you are doing is speculating; like the rest of us are, just what they will do with the Emery operation.

Remember that all those contractor pilots need jobs too, you might even find yourself working for one of them at some point in time, so it would be in your best interest to wish them the best of luck and not berate them.

There is an old saying:

"Be careful of how you treat people on your way up, because you will meet them on your way down."

Good Luck To Us All.

 

[servicemonkey]

Rhoid,

Kevdog is right-good luck.

Lots of folks that got hired by the Majors felt like they had it made, too.

Your attitude reveals a lack of maturity,humility, and self awareness that hopefully you can correct over the next few years with or without getting your butt kicked.

If it doesn't matter to you that enough good pilots have lost their jobs then keep your opinions to yourself.

brgds,
sm

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Rhoid is right...

As long as we (IPA) have a solid scope clause agreement that specifically address the terms surrounding a buyout and then the flying, All the flying will be done by UPS pilots... Any violations of our Scope contract (particularly on domestic soil) will be address and resolved period... The shear mention of allowing any leniency in that contract to a feeder for any reason is total BS. UPS is very creative in finding ways to violate our contract and it’s a full time job for all of us to keep our eyes on the ball. The mere suggestion (from an individual or company) of anything other than compliance with a Unions contract is border line "SCABISM..." I guess if UPS fired all the IPA pilots (if and after we would go on strike) Some of you guys out there would think its ok to be first in line to take the "New" pilot jobs at UPS...

Bigbrowndc8

 

[CCDiscoB]

..I'd much rather see UPS grow internally and hopefully start to hire than see the contractors continue to fly that work...

I would rather the contractors fly the freight. But, I see what you're saying. I used to think the same thing. I hope Delta/American/UPS grows etc., etc. Then I got hired by someone else and I am very happy. I would venture that you may be hoping that these contractors grow too. I'd bet you'd have a better chance of flying for them then UPS.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Bigbrowndc8,

Just got the unexpurgiated version of your post via email notification in which you imply that certain individuals would take your job if lost by a strike. Hmmm. Unfortunately your sentiment and disdain for specific individuals because they have a dissenting opinion from yours rings loud in my ears. Just because someone works for an outfit that does not have a union does not imply that they are going to take your job if it is potentially lost by some political/legal action.

I was in a union, and that union lost me and 500+ other pilots our jobs. Many of my compatriots are working for the contract companies that replaced the inhouse operation. Does that make them wrong? Certainly not! They are doing what they have to do to put food on the table.

Is UPS & the IPA ready to respect the Emery pilots union contract and hire ALL the Emery pilots that lost their jobs by union busting? I doubt that the IPA would welcome us into the fold with open arms. If you think I am being presumptous just look at the contention between the APA and the ALPA units that represented the Reno Air & TWA pilots.

I think that it is undignified to take the issue of just how UPS is going to operate the Emery acquistion and make it a platform for you launch into a "scab" tyraid fueled by your paranoic rage.

No one wants to take your job, they just want to keep theirs!

Good Luck To Us All!