Upgrade requirements

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Thanks for this.


Obviously date of hire plays a role, I understand that seniority and time with the company does and should play a role. But I'm basically at these hours now, just don't have 500 hours with the company . Would it really be a several year wait, or could the upgrade feasibly happen rather quickly(Assuming no furloughs, company stays in business, world doesn't end, etc...)

Without the seniority you will never be a captain. It just depends on how much movement there is.

Here's a simple way of putting it - If you are hired into a company with 3000 pilots, and there are 1500 Captains, 1500 First officers. You have to get to the seniority of the most Jr captain (1500) to upgrade. Until then, none of the other requirements matter. For every captain that moves on to another company or retires that is one seniority spot open for upgrade.

You'll be in for a long wait. Even with the hiring boom coming. I'd guess best case is 3yrs worst is 7-8yrs.

 

[centralpilot]

You have to have at least 8 years of seniority and be on the verge of going ballistic

Yeah, that about sums it up

 

[mrpilotguy]

3 years? that's about 2 years longer than I'd like it to be

 

[Leroy Smith]

3 years? that's about 2 years longer than I'd like it to be

You and everyone else. Lots of people getting by on FO pay and getting no TPIC to pass go.

The other issue is: how long will you be on reserve?? Long upgrade times suck, but not nearly as much as being stuck as an FO on reserve. We have had a considerable amount of attrition from the bottom of the list because of this. I cant blame them, I dont know if I would have hung on if I had to do it for several years

If you dont like those odds, you could try one of the outfits that is having quick upgrades. Just remember that past performance is no guarantee of future results. It wasnt that long ago that PCL, Mesaba and Colgan were hiring street captains...

For planning purposes, on the CRJ side, first chance to upgrade has been pretty consistently around the time you get below 1000 on the seniority list. Whatever your number would be, just drop the one - thats about how many people need to move on. Newhires are coming in with 17XX numbers.

 

[www.]

Ok, I stand corrected. Just on the ERJ side. There was only the requirement that you had an ATP written and 23 years old by the time you were in upgrade class.

And you have claimed to know the ASA CBA. Are you as short as McPickle?

 

[Nevets]

And you have claimed to know the ASA CBA. Are you as short as McPickle?

Yeah, I didn't realize how much worse yours was in this as well. Sorry.

 

[www.]

Yeah, I didn't realize how much worse yours was in this as well. Sorry.

You don't have to say your sorry for being short like McPickle. As long as you don't have a mouth like him!

 

[Nevets]

You don't have to say your sorry for being short like McPickle. As long as you don't have a mouth like him!

Who is mcpickle? And I was apologizing for your plight with your contract, by the way.

 

[Leroy Smith]

Yeah, I didn't realize how much worse yours was in this as well. Sorry.

What's "in this as well"??

 

[Nevets]

What's "in this as well"??

Not being able to exercise your seniority because of restrictive language in your contract.

 

[Leroy Smith]

Not being able to exercise your seniority because of restrictive language in your contract.

The only one that infringes on my seniority is the 500hrs with the company. The others are just good common sense overriding the fact that they hired 190hr wonder pilots instead of folks with some flying background. As an FO, I was pretty thankful for this. If things are moving fast enough for it to be an issue, 500 hrs is about 8-10 months. That doesnt seem like any great hardship. And there is always this:

(6) The Company may waive any of the above requirements for a given period of time with notice to the MEC Chairman. Should any of the requirements be waived for one pilot, they will be waived uniformly for all pilots during such period of time.

Hence, a moot point if it ever comes to it, like when they hired DECs back in the day....

But if it reinforces your sense of superiority, feel free to be outraged

 

[Nevets]

The only one that infringes on my seniority is the 500hrs with the company. The others are just good common sense overriding the fact that they hired 190hr wonder pilots instead of folks with some flying background. As an FO, I was pretty thankful for this. If things are moving fast enough for it to be an issue, 500 hrs is about 8-10 months. That doesnt seem like any great hardship. And there is always this:

(6) The Company may waive any of the above requirements for a given period of time with notice to the MEC Chairman. Should any of the requirements be waived for one pilot, they will be waived uniformly for all pilots during such period of time.

Hence, a moot point if it ever comes to it, like when they hired DECs back in the day....

But if it reinforces your sense of superiority, feel free to be outraged

How about making it moot by letting the FARs and seniority to be the minimum? It's not like street captains are a new thing, much less a 6 month FO becoming a captain.

 

[sweptback]

In times of quick movement, the upgrade minimums are usually waived by the company. I'm not sure why it's even a contractual thing; I'm sure the union doesn't really care as long as it is fair to everybody.

 

[centralpilot]

In times of quick movement, the upgrade minimums are usually waived by the company. I'm not sure why it's even a contractual thing; I'm sure the union doesn't really care as long as it is fair to everybody.

It is contractual because it is an exception to language that dictates filling vacancies by seniority. As you said the restrictions have been reduced in the past as needed. I personally don't think it is unreasonable for the company to prefer 500 hours of company time to ensure someone is familiar with the company's specific procedures, policies, culture, etc. before giving them command. If that ever becomes an issue I imagine it'll be reduced/waived like the TT limits. With upgrades just under 7 years it is not remotely a problem.

 

[www.]

Who is mcpickle? And I was apologizing for your plight with your contract, by the way.

He's the short, loud mouth, sch. chairman that has the "napoleon complex" at XE and tells a handfull of minions what to say on the web boards. He's McPickle on "The Pipe".