Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Upgrade requirements

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
M

mrpilotguy

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
8
What are upgrade requirements at SkyWest/Express Jet?

Is it a TT type thing, or time at the company, or on specific aircraft, etc?

If I got hired with a good bit of TPIC on heavy mil. aircraft, does that experience count for anything?

Thanks
 
mrpilotguy said:
What are upgrade requirements at SkyWest/Express Jet?

Is it a TT type thing, or time at the company, or on specific aircraft, etc?

If I got hired with a good bit of TPIC on heavy mil. aircraft, does that experience count for anything?

Thanks
Click to expand...


Simple answer: Date of Hire

You are at least close to ATP mins if you are getting hired, so you are part way there. If it gets to where upgrade is so fast that you have to worry about company mins, they will probably bend them.
 
Got to have seniority to hold CA obviously, in addition a min of 3000TT and 500 hrs with the company I believe at XJT.
 
Flyguy1226 said:
Got to have seniority to hold CA obviously, in addition a min of 3000TT and 500 hrs with the company I believe at XJT.
Click to expand...

Negative! If you can hold captain on a bid, you can upgrade. Total time or time with the company does not matter.
 
Nevets said:
Ok, I stand corrected. Just on the ERJ side. There was only the requirement that you had an ATP written and 23 years old by the time you were in upgrade class.
Click to expand...

Sorry, should have been more specific, for XJT CRJ side..

Minimum requirements:
(1) ATP written passed;
(2) Current First Class Medical Certificate;
(3) 3,000 hours total fixed wing pilot time;
(4) 2,000 hours total fixed wing multi engine pilot time; and
(5) 500 hours as a pilot with the Company.
(6) The Company may waive any of the above requirements for a given period of time with notice to the MEC Chairman. Should any of the requirements be waived for one pilot, they will be waived uniformly for all pilots during such period of time.
 
mrpilotguy said:
What are upgrade requirements at SkyWest/Express Jet?

Is it a TT type thing, or time at the company, or on specific aircraft, etc?

If I got hired with a good bit of TPIC on heavy mil. aircraft, does that experience count for anything?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Your life and career are now controlled by the "numbers". Numbers means seniority/DOH. The better your number the better your life - it's a direct relationship.

For the most part you have no control over the numbers unless you drive fast and swerve in the employee lot or set wake up calls at 3am for your captain's room.
 
Flyguy1226 said:
Sorry, should have been more specific, for XJT CRJ side..

Minimum requirements:
(1) ATP written passed;
(2) Current First Class Medical Certificate;
(3) 3,000 hours total fixed wing pilot time;
(4) 2,000 hours total fixed wing multi engine pilot time; and
(5) 500 hours as a pilot with the Company.
(6) The Company may waive any of the above requirements for a given period of time with notice to the MEC Chairman. Should any of the requirements be waived for one pilot, they will be waived uniformly for all pilots during such period of time.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this.


Obviously date of hire plays a role, I understand that seniority and time with the company does and should play a role. But I'm basically at these hours now, just don't have 500 hours with the company . Would it really be a several year wait, or could the upgrade feasibly happen rather quickly(Assuming no furloughs, company stays in business, world doesn't end, etc...)
 
Last edited:
mrpilotguy said:
Thanks for this.


Obviously date of hire plays a role, I understand that seniority and time with the company does and should play a role. But I'm basically at these hours now, just don't have 500 hours with the company . Would it really be a several year wait, or could the upgrade feasibly happen rather quickly(Assuming no furloughs, company stays in business, world doesn't end, etc...)
Click to expand...

Without the seniority you will never be a captain. It just depends on how much movement there is.

Here's a simple way of putting it - If you are hired into a company with 3000 pilots, and there are 1500 Captains, 1500 First officers. You have to get to the seniority of the most Jr captain (1500) to upgrade. Until then, none of the other requirements matter. For every captain that moves on to another company or retires that is one seniority spot open for upgrade.

You'll be in for a long wait. Even with the hiring boom coming. I'd guess best case is 3yrs worst is 7-8yrs.
 
mrpilotguy said:
3 years? that's about 2 years longer than I'd like it to be :)
Click to expand...

You and everyone else. Lots of people getting by on FO pay and getting no TPIC to pass go.

The other issue is: how long will you be on reserve?? Long upgrade times suck, but not nearly as much as being stuck as an FO on reserve. We have had a considerable amount of attrition from the bottom of the list because of this. I cant blame them, I dont know if I would have hung on if I had to do it for several years

If you dont like those odds, you could try one of the outfits that is having quick upgrades. Just remember that past performance is no guarantee of future results. It wasnt that long ago that PCL, Mesaba and Colgan were hiring street captains...

For planning purposes, on the CRJ side, first chance to upgrade has been pretty consistently around the time you get below 1000 on the seniority list. Whatever your number would be, just drop the one - thats about how many people need to move on. Newhires are coming in with 17XX numbers.
 
Nevets said:
Ok, I stand corrected. Just on the ERJ side. There was only the requirement that you had an ATP written and 23 years old by the time you were in upgrade class.
Click to expand...

And you have claimed to know the ASA CBA. Are you as short as McPickle?
 
Nevets said:
Not being able to exercise your seniority because of restrictive language in your contract.
Click to expand...


The only one that infringes on my seniority is the 500hrs with the company. The others are just good common sense overriding the fact that they hired 190hr wonder pilots instead of folks with some flying background. As an FO, I was pretty thankful for this. If things are moving fast enough for it to be an issue, 500 hrs is about 8-10 months. That doesnt seem like any great hardship. And there is always this:

(6) The Company may waive any of the above requirements for a given period of time with notice to the MEC Chairman. Should any of the requirements be waived for one pilot, they will be waived uniformly for all pilots during such period of time.

Hence, a moot point if it ever comes to it, like when they hired DECs back in the day....

But if it reinforces your sense of superiority, feel free to be outraged
 
Leroy Smith said:
The only one that infringes on my seniority is the 500hrs with the company. The others are just good common sense overriding the fact that they hired 190hr wonder pilots instead of folks with some flying background. As an FO, I was pretty thankful for this. If things are moving fast enough for it to be an issue, 500 hrs is about 8-10 months. That doesnt seem like any great hardship. And there is always this:

(6) The Company may waive any of the above requirements for a given period of time with notice to the MEC Chairman. Should any of the requirements be waived for one pilot, they will be waived uniformly for all pilots during such period of time.

Hence, a moot point if it ever comes to it, like when they hired DECs back in the day....

But if it reinforces your sense of superiority, feel free to be outraged
Click to expand...

How about making it moot by letting the FARs and seniority to be the minimum? It's not like street captains are a new thing, much less a 6 month FO becoming a captain.
 
In times of quick movement, the upgrade minimums are usually waived by the company. I'm not sure why it's even a contractual thing; I'm sure the union doesn't really care as long as it is fair to everybody.
 
sweptback said:
In times of quick movement, the upgrade minimums are usually waived by the company. I'm not sure why it's even a contractual thing; I'm sure the union doesn't really care as long as it is fair to everybody.
Click to expand...

It is contractual because it is an exception to language that dictates filling vacancies by seniority. As you said the restrictions have been reduced in the past as needed. I personally don't think it is unreasonable for the company to prefer 500 hours of company time to ensure someone is familiar with the company's specific procedures, policies, culture, etc. before giving them command. If that ever becomes an issue I imagine it'll be reduced/waived like the TT limits. With upgrades just under 7 years it is not remotely a problem.
 
Nevets said:
Who is mcpickle? And I was apologizing for your plight with your contract, by the way.
Click to expand...

He's the short, loud mouth, sch. chairman that has the "napoleon complex" at XE and tells a handfull of minions what to say on the web boards. He's McPickle on "The Pipe".
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom