Unrealistic Expectations

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Typhoon

Typhoon, please do not take the posts here personally -- perhaps I'm reading you wrong, but you seem a bit defensive.

You're right, and I apologize for being so trigger-happy. My only excuse is weariness from reading broad generalizations about my "generation" of pilots. As the son of an Eastern striker who learned how to fly "the hard way" (that is outside the military or Embry-Riddle, etc.), it starts getting old after a while.

You know my father's airline career advice to me? "No matter what decision you make, you'll be wrong." (He interviewed with Braniff and Air America before being hired by E.A.L. in '66, went on strike in '89, been a refugee ever since.) Let's just say I'm not looking forward to our next contract vote...

But in the mean time...

Originally posted by Freight Dog
...think of it this way...you could be working 7-6 office job 5 days a week and fight the rush hour traffic day in and day out, and only wonder what could have happened if you stuck it out whenever you see an airplane fly overhead.

These are exactly my thoughts every time I come sweeping over the top of S.H.114 on my way to 18-R, and see ten million little cars lined up bumper-to-bumper, each with a little unhappy, corporate peon behind the wheel.

I have trouble relating to my neighbors, most of whom are nine-to-five-five-days-a-week types. A lot of them are "in sales." (What the hel_ does that mean, "in sales?" I've never told anyone I'm "in travel.") They have such boring little careers, and they seek out recreation in all directions to relieve the tedium.

My career is my recreation! And it's a shame that few people ever really understand what a wonderful combination that is.

(By the way, if anyone was curious, "Typhoon1244" is a reference to my favorite novel, The Caine Mutiny. Get it? The typhoon of Dec. 1944? I may change handles someday; "Typhoon" sounds like a Marvel Comics character...)

 

[V-1]

Re: Re: Typhoon

My career is my recreation! And it's a shame that few people ever really understand what a wonderful combination that is.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I took my favorite hobby and turned it into my career. Now I find myself struggling to find a new hobby I enjoy as much as flying. It's a nice dilemma to have.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Typhoon...

I'm sorry you loved my post until you got to the part about the bridge program... But I am just relating to you what the guy said to me, and I thought it was relevant to the thread. For what it's worth, I am an ERAU grad, but didn't do ALL my flight training there. For the most part I don't even mention my alma mater because you do get that certain reaction from people when you mention you are a "Riddle-ite." So... In some sense, I guess I am one of "your generation" of pilots, as you put it.

Anyway, as FurlAgain said, it's not really about age, or what college you went to, or whatever, it's about emotional maturity and the realization that not everyone reached their current position in the same manner that you did... and a lot of people who, for instance, attended gung-ho aviation universities and ended up in 121 jobs with 300 hours don't have even a shred of humility or can conceive that only ten years ago you wouldn't have even been able to get a CFI job with that kind of time.

I flew with captains at a 1900 operation who sat in the right seat for nearly FOUR YEARS before they finally got to upgrade (and we won't even mention the embarrasing pay scale that they were subject to in that right seat in the mid-90's). I'm afraid those pilots didn't suffer well the complaints of 23 year-olds who groused about having to wait an extra month to upgrade, annoyed as they were that their "promised" 15-month upgrade was now 16 months (pre-9/11 of course!).

Those people, and those who REALLY had it tough have my admiration and respect, as they are the ones who made honest-to-goodness sacrifices for their love of flying and their choice of career. Hearing today's brand-new FO's decry that they are forced to fly a "droning turboprop", or the startling behavior of SOME wet-behind-the-ears RJ FO's, who have some misplaced feelings of superiority because the equipment they fly... I hope they eventually come to realize that they are quite fortunate, indeed.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Typhoon...

Those people, and those who REALLY had it tough have my admiration and respect...

They have mine, too. I'll never forget one captain I flew with who spent part of the early-mid '90's working as a clerk at Wal-Mart. He had 2,500 hours and everything but an ATP...and he couldn't get hired anywhere. [Shudder.]

With all do submission to those of you who went through it, I'm glad I missed out on those days...

Anyway, like I said, I was probably being a little over-defensive. FurloughedAgain said this thread is about attitude. I just want everyone to remember that the ungrateful F/O's we've been talking about don't have a monopoly on wanton mopery. I've met some 35-year major airline captains--guys who spent their entire careers at one airline--who had some pretty crappy attitudes, too.

My father has a good, close friend who used to be an Air Florida guy. I used to love sitting and listening to them talk about flying...even if I didn't always understand what they were talking about. (I was eight.) As deregulation got rolling, they started talking less and less about flying, and more and more about contracts, furloughs, scope, the Railway Labor act, Ichan, Lorenzo, strikes, duty rigs, "screw" scheduling, hostile takeovers, sick-outs, B-scales...

I wish we could all get back to talking about flying again...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Furloughed Pilots

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is furloughed from US Airways.

He has about 8000 hours total time -- maybe a bit more. He's type-rated in the Jetstream, the Saab 340, and the EMB145. He flew the MD80 while at US Airways for a little over 2 years and has about 1500 hours in that.

He cant find a job and is currently selling suits at Men's Wearhouse.

Times are tough.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Amen, Typhoon, I dearly wish that we could get back to the flying conversations, and that the myriad of topics you list weren't part of our vernacular.

Since you mention Mr. E.K. Gann's book in your signature, I feel it necessary to point out to all that have "lost their way" in this industry re-read that book (or, if you haven't read it, for God's sakes, WHY NOT??)... The entire first half of the book, and in specific the first two chapters, certainly, should be required reading in ANY airline ground school.

To steal a line and reword it for my own purposes,

"It's the flying, stupid!"

 

[wafu39]

Great thread !

Just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed reading all your thoughts.

I agree with FurloughedAgain, it is ALL about attitude.

For those of you stuck in a right seat somewhere, just enjoy the flying, be the best F/O that you can, and take this opportunity to learn from the many experienced Captains that you will fly with.

No matter how bad it may seem, you still have the best job in the world!

Don't take it for granted because in this industry there are no guarantees and no-one is owed anything, by anybody.

600/844

 

[FD109]

Even in bad times, focus on good time

This is a great thread. Most of the posts have put some bad things into perspective and helped us get our thinking back closer to the right track--you'll be a lot happier if you think about the trip not the destination.

I know we all complain (after all, we are pilots) and we all know the bad things about our jobs, but never forget: The worst flying job is better than the best non-flying job.

There are so many pleasures that we experience that non-pilots will never know. Where else is someone going to turn a beautiful, multi-million-dollar, mechanical and electronic marvel over to you and let you pretty much do what ever you want to with it? And where else would you have the calibre of people who typically work in your little mobile office with you? And where else would you meet some of those marvelous characters we have in our ranks?

A pilot's career is so full of highlights that it's difficult to remember them all, and its's really difficult not to take them for granted.

Reading some of the earlier posts I was thinking about some of the highlights of my career, and there is no question what the ultimate highlight of my 35+ year career was: It wasn't when I soloed, or when I flew my first flight as an airline pilot in an Eastern CV-440, or when I flew my first flight as captain, or when I met my wife (a flight attendant) on a flight 33 years ago, or when I got the MD-80 Captain/Check Airman job at a start-up airline after Eastern died, or when the little airline I helped start operated its first flight. All those things, and a lot of others, were wonderful, but they weren't the ultimate career highlight.

The ultimate highlight of my career was when I was able to ride the jumpseat with both of my sons after they had checked out as captains. Crusty ole airline captains ain't supposed to get tears in their eyes at about Vr in this situation, but I'll bet you do too if you ever have that privilege. (By the way, mom, the ex- flight attendant was in the back. Just like mom and both kids were in the back of my airplane when I flew my first captain trip.)

Enough of this setimental crap: The point is, enjoy yourselves, have fun, and make every flight something special.

 

[TurboS7]

FD109, your a class act, great thread, and you are right on.

 

[AZaviator]

Here is a question I think most of us will have the same answer for, which is an answer most people won't have.

The question is:

What did you want to be when you were a kid?

Answer: a pilot.


Follow up question:

What are you doing now?

Answer: I'm a pilot.

Think about it. How many people get to say their career is the same career they dreamed about having, when they were a kid?! How many people have you met that said, "Oh, you're a pilot? wow, I wanted to be a pilot when I was a kid, but such and such came up, and I never did it."

I consider us to be an extraordinary group of people, who pursued our dreams and our dream jobs and have been successful, regardless if you're a CFI, a 1900FO, 747 Captain, or someone on furlough, awaiting a recall. Even if you're working on your private pilot's license, with only 10 hours, atleast you're doing something about following your dream.

We won't have to be among the people who are now saying; "woulda, coulda, shoulda".....when being asked about what their dream job would have been if they had pursued it.

This definetly is a good thread. Its such a change of pace from some of the other threads. Keep it going!