Unrealistic Expectations

[MetroSheriff]

BTW,

Great thread everyone.

 

[FD109]

You're Welcome

Like all of us, I can't say how much longer the ride will last, but I'm sure enjoying myself now...well. You wanted to know how some of us "two-year captains"feel. I can only speak for myself...now you know.

Ernie Gann couldn't have said it better. Keep having fun!!

 

[414Flyer]

I think there were two quotes on this thread that people should read, and read again, and keep in mind throughout their flying careers:



and



I think if you focus more on the journey to flying the big iron, all the people you'll meet, all the places you'll get to go, all the experiences you have..... rather than the end goal, it will be a much more enjoyable ride.

And, as quoted above, remember, this industry is cyclical. What comes around goes around. It might not be the greatest now, but it will eventually turn around, and all of us will have significantly better chances of attaining our dream flying job.

Yeah I get somewhat exasperated with people who think flying is about the destination (that major airline seat), and not about enjoying it in the meantime. To those types, its not a real job unless it is a major airline, and they look down on anyone who isnt doing that for a career. I intend to enjoy my career as a pilot, regardless of how big a plane I end up in. And I will not shed any tears if I do not end up flying big iron, as long as it was fun along the way

 

[TurboS7]

For the love of the game................nice posts.

 

[Aviator]

This has got to be one of the best threads I've ever seen on this board. Many excellent posts especially from FurloughedAgain.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Furloughed Again... I tip my hat to you. You are a true pro, and I do wish I had the opportunity to share the cockpit with more like you. A true pilot flies and doesn't bemoan his equipment as not being "good enough" or how annoyed he is about how United isn't calling yet.

Somehow the collected tales of this thread remind me of a story of my own from about two years ago when I was jumpseating on a CRJ. I wandered into the cockpit to introduce myself, grateful that the captain was gracious enough to let someone who didn't work for his company (nor had any affiliation whatsoever with his outfit) sit inches over his right shoulder for an hour and a half. After exchanging the usual pleasantries and fiddling with the jumpseat for a minute or two, the inevitable "so what are you flying?" question came up... "The Mighty Beech", I said. Well, you simply wouldn't have believed the look of disdain that coursed across the FO's face... Didn't even try to hide it. The funny part was I then looked at the captain, who happened to be looking at the FO, and HIS expression was absolutely priceless and easy to interpret... "What is THAT face for??" Well it seems the captain on this airplane had spent four years or so flying the 1900C and D-models, and he waxed eloquently about how much he missed flying the plane... While the FO sat there, smugly disinterested in the entire conversation.

Anyhoo... Fast-forward to half an hour into the flight, and the FO announces he has to go use the bathroom. After awkardly extricating myself from the jumpseat to let him out and locking the door behind me, the captain turns to me and says "Tell you what, don't let that kid back in here. The biggest thing he flew before this was Seminole and he thinks the world owes him MY seat... Two months on the line and he's an old pro, seen it all, and he doesn't even have a thousand hours yet. He'd probably have a heart attack if he had to fly a 1900. These bridge program kids are all the same, think they've got it all figured out and they are above everyone else who works for this company who's in a prop, or ever flew a prop for that matter."

I just sat there, snickering and wondering just how serious he was about not letting the FO back in the cockpit.

 

[Typhoon1244]

While the FO sat there, smugly disinterested in the entire conversation.

I've seen similar reactions, talking to jumpseaters about learning how to fly from a 1000-foot grass strip...as opposed to a college campus.

Loved your post until I got to this sentence:

These bridge program kids are all the same, think they've got it all figured out and they are above everyone else who works for this company who's in a prop, or ever flew a prop for that matter.

Going through a "bridge program" does not automatically strip you of all perspective. (I even know some guys with lots of 1900 time that came across the bridge...)

 

[Snow]

As a student soon to begin a advanced flying training program having finished college, I'd just like to say I think the prospect of flying turboprops would be great fun! Firstly I just love the sound that they make, I think they're far more interesting to ride on as a passinger than a 737! Plus I'd think you'd get a wealth of exprence flying to both large and small airports, controlled and uncontrolled in all sorts of conditions and often without an auto pilot. Not to say I wouldn't want a job with the majors, but I would think you'd learn a lot more and have a lot more interesting exprenceces in a TP with a regional than a 777 at the majors. And yes I know about the long hours and sometimes 7day weeks, but hey... your getting paid flying arn't you? If it's somthing you love, then it's hardly a chore, the pay is just a bonus.

 

[Freight Dog]

AWESOME thread... absolutely awesome.

I am a 26 year old who's fortunate to be living in paradise flying in the left seat of a Dash 8 between the Hawaiian Islands having only spent 1 year in the right seat.

In my career so far, I've done a little bit of everything except banner-towing and flight instructing. I flew skydivers, VFR 135 tours, single pilot 135 night cargo, and one thing is clear - I wouldn't trade it for any other job out there. If I was to get stuck in a Piper Lance for years flying checks, I'd take it with stride, and be happy I'm flying. Sure, I'd b*tch and moan - which pilot doesn't, but would I trade it for an office job? Not just no, but HE11 NO!!!

For those who feel "stuck" where they are... think of it this way - you could be working 7-6 office job 5 days a week and fight the rush hour traffic day in and day out, and only wonder what could have happened if you stuck it out whenever you see an airplane fly overhead.

If you are in this industry because you wouldn't be happy doing anything else, you've got it made even if you don't make it to UAL 777 left seat.

However, if you are in it because you figure you'd get to make $100k+ in 3 years after graduation... you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment and probably have picked the wrong industry.

I think the NBA said it right: I LOVE THIS GAME!

Keep up the great posts!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Typhoon

Typhoon,

Please do not take the posts here personally -- perhaps I'm reading you wrong, but you seem a bit defensive.

This thread isnt about age, or experience, or bridge programs, or flight instructing -- its about attitude.

Its about a new generation of pilots who were not told the truth. In all of their aviation training, they were never given any training on the aviation industry and, as a result, they feel cheated.

Another one of my favorite captains from years past told me once, "There's no such thing as an airline career... just your next airline job."

This thread is about sharing experiences with pilots who did not have the opportunity to learn about the generations of pilots who came before. The ones who dont understand what happened at New York Air, People's Express, Eastern and Continental. The ones who snicker when they see a PanAm 727 -- not remembering that PanAm was, at one time, the most powerful airline and most recognized corporate symbol on the planet.

It's about I.P. Freely being "snubbed" for flying a Beech by a junior first officer.

This is a thread about welcoming this generation of pilots to the bottom of the aviation economic cycle... educating them... and helping them to understand that perhaps some of the expectations that they had for their "career" were a bit unrealistic.

Its not a career, after all, its just another job. Do you love flying enough to keep it -- whatever the cost?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Typhoon

Typhoon, please do not take the posts here personally -- perhaps I'm reading you wrong, but you seem a bit defensive.

You're right, and I apologize for being so trigger-happy. My only excuse is weariness from reading broad generalizations about my "generation" of pilots. As the son of an Eastern striker who learned how to fly "the hard way" (that is outside the military or Embry-Riddle, etc.), it starts getting old after a while.

You know my father's airline career advice to me? "No matter what decision you make, you'll be wrong." (He interviewed with Braniff and Air America before being hired by E.A.L. in '66, went on strike in '89, been a refugee ever since.) Let's just say I'm not looking forward to our next contract vote...

But in the mean time...

Originally posted by Freight Dog
...think of it this way...you could be working 7-6 office job 5 days a week and fight the rush hour traffic day in and day out, and only wonder what could have happened if you stuck it out whenever you see an airplane fly overhead.

These are exactly my thoughts every time I come sweeping over the top of S.H.114 on my way to 18-R, and see ten million little cars lined up bumper-to-bumper, each with a little unhappy, corporate peon behind the wheel.

I have trouble relating to my neighbors, most of whom are nine-to-five-five-days-a-week types. A lot of them are "in sales." (What the hel_ does that mean, "in sales?" I've never told anyone I'm "in travel.") They have such boring little careers, and they seek out recreation in all directions to relieve the tedium.

My career is my recreation! And it's a shame that few people ever really understand what a wonderful combination that is.

(By the way, if anyone was curious, "Typhoon1244" is a reference to my favorite novel, The Caine Mutiny. Get it? The typhoon of Dec. 1944? I may change handles someday; "Typhoon" sounds like a Marvel Comics character...)

 

[V-1]

Re: Re: Typhoon

My career is my recreation! And it's a shame that few people ever really understand what a wonderful combination that is.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I took my favorite hobby and turned it into my career. Now I find myself struggling to find a new hobby I enjoy as much as flying. It's a nice dilemma to have.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Typhoon...

I'm sorry you loved my post until you got to the part about the bridge program... But I am just relating to you what the guy said to me, and I thought it was relevant to the thread. For what it's worth, I am an ERAU grad, but didn't do ALL my flight training there. For the most part I don't even mention my alma mater because you do get that certain reaction from people when you mention you are a "Riddle-ite." So... In some sense, I guess I am one of "your generation" of pilots, as you put it.

Anyway, as FurlAgain said, it's not really about age, or what college you went to, or whatever, it's about emotional maturity and the realization that not everyone reached their current position in the same manner that you did... and a lot of people who, for instance, attended gung-ho aviation universities and ended up in 121 jobs with 300 hours don't have even a shred of humility or can conceive that only ten years ago you wouldn't have even been able to get a CFI job with that kind of time.

I flew with captains at a 1900 operation who sat in the right seat for nearly FOUR YEARS before they finally got to upgrade (and we won't even mention the embarrasing pay scale that they were subject to in that right seat in the mid-90's). I'm afraid those pilots didn't suffer well the complaints of 23 year-olds who groused about having to wait an extra month to upgrade, annoyed as they were that their "promised" 15-month upgrade was now 16 months (pre-9/11 of course!).

Those people, and those who REALLY had it tough have my admiration and respect, as they are the ones who made honest-to-goodness sacrifices for their love of flying and their choice of career. Hearing today's brand-new FO's decry that they are forced to fly a "droning turboprop", or the startling behavior of SOME wet-behind-the-ears RJ FO's, who have some misplaced feelings of superiority because the equipment they fly... I hope they eventually come to realize that they are quite fortunate, indeed.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Typhoon...

Those people, and those who REALLY had it tough have my admiration and respect...

They have mine, too. I'll never forget one captain I flew with who spent part of the early-mid '90's working as a clerk at Wal-Mart. He had 2,500 hours and everything but an ATP...and he couldn't get hired anywhere. [Shudder.]

With all do submission to those of you who went through it, I'm glad I missed out on those days...

Anyway, like I said, I was probably being a little over-defensive. FurloughedAgain said this thread is about attitude. I just want everyone to remember that the ungrateful F/O's we've been talking about don't have a monopoly on wanton mopery. I've met some 35-year major airline captains--guys who spent their entire careers at one airline--who had some pretty crappy attitudes, too.

My father has a good, close friend who used to be an Air Florida guy. I used to love sitting and listening to them talk about flying...even if I didn't always understand what they were talking about. (I was eight.) As deregulation got rolling, they started talking less and less about flying, and more and more about contracts, furloughs, scope, the Railway Labor act, Ichan, Lorenzo, strikes, duty rigs, "screw" scheduling, hostile takeovers, sick-outs, B-scales...

I wish we could all get back to talking about flying again...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Furloughed Pilots

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is furloughed from US Airways.

He has about 8000 hours total time -- maybe a bit more. He's type-rated in the Jetstream, the Saab 340, and the EMB145. He flew the MD80 while at US Airways for a little over 2 years and has about 1500 hours in that.

He cant find a job and is currently selling suits at Men's Wearhouse.

Times are tough.