LeonPhelps
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Unofficial SWA Hiring Mins
- Thread starter LeonPhelps
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TV9Driver
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1700 PIC turbine is what they told me - of course it was AFTER I just paid for my type rating. Also, you'd better be military - it's turned into a big military club now. Out of the 15 guys in my type class, half were military. Every one of the military guys got an interview - not 1 civilian got an interview. I guess 1,400 121 pic turbine and several years at a major airline don't mean much these days. Oh well, live goes on.
TV9Driver,
a. You didn't mention how many hours the military guys had PIC wise. Military flight commitments (at least for the USAF) have gone up from 6 years when I was in to about 9. So guys will have more PIC than before.
b. With all this war going on and other troubles for the past decade, the military guys fly more than ever, including the fighter jocks, so they are more competitive than before.
c. Not flame bait, but its hard flying downtown Iraq with AAA coming at you and converting that to 121 time. NOBODY in the military gets 121 time so your comment that you are the cat's meow because of 1400PIC 121 time and major carrier doesn't hold much water.
d. Just because half of your type class was military and they all got interviews is simple statistics and coincidence. Could be the pool has a boatload of civies with types already, so your comparison doesn't mean much. The hiring numbers show lots of civilians.
Good luck, but get a better attitude. If it makes you feel better, the military is a lot smaller than it used to be, so there will be fewer of us filling the ranks of the majors over the next decade and beyond.
a. You didn't mention how many hours the military guys had PIC wise. Military flight commitments (at least for the USAF) have gone up from 6 years when I was in to about 9. So guys will have more PIC than before.
b. With all this war going on and other troubles for the past decade, the military guys fly more than ever, including the fighter jocks, so they are more competitive than before.
c. Not flame bait, but its hard flying downtown Iraq with AAA coming at you and converting that to 121 time. NOBODY in the military gets 121 time so your comment that you are the cat's meow because of 1400PIC 121 time and major carrier doesn't hold much water.
d. Just because half of your type class was military and they all got interviews is simple statistics and coincidence. Could be the pool has a boatload of civies with types already, so your comparison doesn't mean much. The hiring numbers show lots of civilians.
Good luck, but get a better attitude. If it makes you feel better, the military is a lot smaller than it used to be, so there will be fewer of us filling the ranks of the majors over the next decade and beyond.
Phaedrus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Posts
- 932
TV9...whoa. The HR Dept must not have had that "military only" memo when I interviewed there a short while back. 2 out of 12 were hired from my group: 1 civ and 1 mil. I had my type, well over the PIC requirement, lots of good recs, blah, blah, blah and still got the .37 cent kick in the jimmies.
....what kelbill said.
....what kelbill said.
Whiskerbizkit
Inside her \|/
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Posts
- 373
Kelbill
When SWA starts going downtown Bagdad with a few MK83's slung under the wing let me know. I know military make good airline pilots, I also know civ's do as well. Its what I do now. Into the same airports, operating under the same 121 rules, etc.
Funny, looking at your profile, have you gone downtown in the 141 or the King Aire? The 141 took me to plenty of places as a Marine grunt, but it usually took an additional C130 or helo ride to get me to where the action was.
When SWA starts going downtown Bagdad with a few MK83's slung under the wing let me know. I know military make good airline pilots, I also know civ's do as well. Its what I do now. Into the same airports, operating under the same 121 rules, etc.
Funny, looking at your profile, have you gone downtown in the 141 or the King Aire? The 141 took me to plenty of places as a Marine grunt, but it usually took an additional C130 or helo ride to get me to where the action was.
Good Grief you knuckleheads, get a grip.
1. I never said "I" went downtown Iraq bombing the hell out of anyone. What I said and/or implied was that THE MILITARY DON'T FLY NO 121 OPS, SO IF YOU EXPECT THAT ON MILITARY RESUMES YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
2. That also goes for the statement implying I thought dropping bombs being better or as good as flying 121. According to your implication, NO MILITARY PILOT should ever fly at SWA unless going through another 121 op first. WE DON'T FLY 121 IN THE MILITARY, BUT WE DO FLY LOTS OF PLACES, UPSIDE DOWN, IN FORMATION, LOW LEVEL, AND YOU KNOW WHAT, TAXI AND APPROACH ISSUES AT THE LANDING FIELD ARE THE LEAST OF OUR CONCERNS. I'VE BEEN TO LAX A HUNDRED TIMES OR MORE NOW. I'M BETTER THAN A NEW GUY GOING THERE, BUT NOT 100 TIMES BETTER.
3. Did I bad mouth civilians even remotely? No, but here you guys come after me and my homies.
4. My Marine friend, thanks for serving, but you must have flown choppers or rented planes at the aero club to get where you are. Good for you, it shows determination. I did drop off some of you guys in Mogadishu, Somalia, so when American Eagle or Comair do that, let me know. When you fly approaches wearing a chem mask, let me know. When you fly cross cockpit in a '50s era T37, in the WX, taking off with min fuel to begin with, let me know. We all have our challenges don't we?
Damn, fellas, I hope everyone who is a good dude gets hired, but listening to the whining here, I think the DB is doing a good job. Hang in there, build your time, and quit pissing people off, even anonymously.
1. I never said "I" went downtown Iraq bombing the hell out of anyone. What I said and/or implied was that THE MILITARY DON'T FLY NO 121 OPS, SO IF YOU EXPECT THAT ON MILITARY RESUMES YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
2. That also goes for the statement implying I thought dropping bombs being better or as good as flying 121. According to your implication, NO MILITARY PILOT should ever fly at SWA unless going through another 121 op first. WE DON'T FLY 121 IN THE MILITARY, BUT WE DO FLY LOTS OF PLACES, UPSIDE DOWN, IN FORMATION, LOW LEVEL, AND YOU KNOW WHAT, TAXI AND APPROACH ISSUES AT THE LANDING FIELD ARE THE LEAST OF OUR CONCERNS. I'VE BEEN TO LAX A HUNDRED TIMES OR MORE NOW. I'M BETTER THAN A NEW GUY GOING THERE, BUT NOT 100 TIMES BETTER.
3. Did I bad mouth civilians even remotely? No, but here you guys come after me and my homies.
4. My Marine friend, thanks for serving, but you must have flown choppers or rented planes at the aero club to get where you are. Good for you, it shows determination. I did drop off some of you guys in Mogadishu, Somalia, so when American Eagle or Comair do that, let me know. When you fly approaches wearing a chem mask, let me know. When you fly cross cockpit in a '50s era T37, in the WX, taking off with min fuel to begin with, let me know. We all have our challenges don't we?
Damn, fellas, I hope everyone who is a good dude gets hired, but listening to the whining here, I think the DB is doing a good job. Hang in there, build your time, and quit pissing people off, even anonymously.
Easy guys,
I guess I can understand all the hostility going around, but, Let's not do this "Civ. versus Mil." thing any more. We all know pros and cons of both backgrounds. I personally have 3 types and 1800 pic 121 (and waiting since 08-04.)
With approx. 10,000 apps on file, SWA has the luxury of picking who they want to interview, and from what I understand, only 1 or 2 out of 5 are getting hired. My take is ...bottom line...even if you get the interview (CIV or MIL).... THEY HAVE TO LIKE YOU. If you don't give a good impression, you probably will not get the offer. My two cents....fire away.
I guess I can understand all the hostility going around, but, Let's not do this "Civ. versus Mil." thing any more. We all know pros and cons of both backgrounds. I personally have 3 types and 1800 pic 121 (and waiting since 08-04.)
With approx. 10,000 apps on file, SWA has the luxury of picking who they want to interview, and from what I understand, only 1 or 2 out of 5 are getting hired. My take is ...bottom line...even if you get the interview (CIV or MIL).... THEY HAVE TO LIKE YOU. If you don't give a good impression, you probably will not get the offer. My two cents....fire away.
Wesb737fo,
the voice of reason. Can't we all just get along? This is one tough market, and so tensions are high. I paid my $7500 or so for the type, and would have been damned pissed if I wasn't hired. I was hired, thank GOD, but a bunch of my military buds weren't, so you have to keep plugging away, ask your buds what might have turned the interviewer off, do some practice interviews with family and/or a pro, keep building hours, and try again next year (or two, whatever the rule). I believe the interview practice is a requirement for guys that are fairly shy or obnoxious. If you are what others consider a good people person, you can probably shoot the breeze with anyone. If not, that often shows, but can be improved upon. I'm not saying I'm Don Juan, but I do like yucking it up with my buds. Good luck to all.
the voice of reason. Can't we all just get along? This is one tough market, and so tensions are high. I paid my $7500 or so for the type, and would have been damned pissed if I wasn't hired. I was hired, thank GOD, but a bunch of my military buds weren't, so you have to keep plugging away, ask your buds what might have turned the interviewer off, do some practice interviews with family and/or a pro, keep building hours, and try again next year (or two, whatever the rule). I believe the interview practice is a requirement for guys that are fairly shy or obnoxious. If you are what others consider a good people person, you can probably shoot the breeze with anyone. If not, that often shows, but can be improved upon. I'm not saying I'm Don Juan, but I do like yucking it up with my buds. Good luck to all.
jimEJet
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2002
- Posts
- 90
Wow
We all need to chill!
The reality is the civil aviation market blows a$$.
Look around, United guys are getting paid $129 an hour to fly Airbuses.
Northwest, Delta, and just around everyone else will be filing for bankruptcy protection before October.
The management at those that don't will be asking for even more concessions (including SWA, in my humble opinion come next year)!
If you're in the market to get a job at SWA do some self-evaluation before you go to your interview. Get rid of the "I should and I earned and I paid $7500 crap." I have had several acquaintances call me up out of the blue for a recommendation to SWA. I am happy to oblige anyone whom I have flown with or have had a professional relationship with, however.
Based on all the complaining of guys who have not had an opportunity to interview, you would have expected anyone who gets an interview to be pumped up and willing to jump through all kinds of hoops to pass the interview process. Guess what! A good deal of our brethren are still under the assumption that when they get the minimums or competitive minimums for the interview the work is over.
Wake up call dudes and dudettes!! It's just the beginning. I am shocked by the apathy and lack of motivation of the people that call me. I ask them simple questions about their background before I offer them a recommendation. Just for C Y A purposes. I ask the simple questions like...
Is there anything in your background that SWA will find about that I need to know before I recommend you?
Have you ever busted a type ride and any rating check?
Do you have any DUI's?
Any criminal issues from your past?
Have you considered any interview prep?
Would you be willing to go get a type before you interview?
Well, guess what boys and girls...
A good deal of these people are wasting slots for interviews.
They are grossly unprepared. A good deal of them has not even done a background check on themselves. IF they have an issue, they do not have any clue how to turn it into a learning event during the interview.
You guys need to get prepared before you call your buds for a recommendation. Do some soul searching. Address the problem areas, no matter what they may be. And get some damned motivation. Go get interview prep, not that Cheryl Cage crap. Get some real interview prep.
Everyone has an issue in their past they need to address. Don't try to hide it because they will find out. And if you do not come clean to the person recommending you they cannot help you. And if you omit something on the app and SWA finds out, good luck on getting hired.
I may seem a little harsh guys, however. I had about fifteen people, mostly ATA guys, call me for a rec.
I asked all the guys the above questions and some had issues, one lied. But most did not have any clue how to address problem areas. Some could not even tell a basic resume format of their past in a chronological manner that flowed to me. Let alone a competitive interview.
I suggested to all to go get an interview prep from a person I highly recommended for a mere $150. Out of 15 guess how many took me up on my offer? 4 Guess how many out of the eleven that did not take my advice got hired. 0 Guess how many out of the 4 got hired? 3
Still not sure why he did not get hired but I know he will next time around.
My point is... Quit b1tching about not getting interviewed. Start preparing and do everything you can to be competitive.
As for military vs civilian:
The civilian guys simply do not interview as well as the military guys. Military guys are always going before a review board of sorts. They have been doing interview type presentations for their entire military careers.
Civilian boys and girls get interview prep!!
IF you are serious and want one of the best guys out their, PM me and I'll give you his name and number.
Good luck and ONLY POSITIVE ENERGY
J
We all need to chill!
The reality is the civil aviation market blows a$$.
Look around, United guys are getting paid $129 an hour to fly Airbuses.
Northwest, Delta, and just around everyone else will be filing for bankruptcy protection before October.
The management at those that don't will be asking for even more concessions (including SWA, in my humble opinion come next year)!
If you're in the market to get a job at SWA do some self-evaluation before you go to your interview. Get rid of the "I should and I earned and I paid $7500 crap." I have had several acquaintances call me up out of the blue for a recommendation to SWA. I am happy to oblige anyone whom I have flown with or have had a professional relationship with, however.
Based on all the complaining of guys who have not had an opportunity to interview, you would have expected anyone who gets an interview to be pumped up and willing to jump through all kinds of hoops to pass the interview process. Guess what! A good deal of our brethren are still under the assumption that when they get the minimums or competitive minimums for the interview the work is over.
Wake up call dudes and dudettes!! It's just the beginning. I am shocked by the apathy and lack of motivation of the people that call me. I ask them simple questions about their background before I offer them a recommendation. Just for C Y A purposes. I ask the simple questions like...
Is there anything in your background that SWA will find about that I need to know before I recommend you?
Have you ever busted a type ride and any rating check?
Do you have any DUI's?
Any criminal issues from your past?
Have you considered any interview prep?
Would you be willing to go get a type before you interview?
Well, guess what boys and girls...
A good deal of these people are wasting slots for interviews.
They are grossly unprepared. A good deal of them has not even done a background check on themselves. IF they have an issue, they do not have any clue how to turn it into a learning event during the interview.
You guys need to get prepared before you call your buds for a recommendation. Do some soul searching. Address the problem areas, no matter what they may be. And get some damned motivation. Go get interview prep, not that Cheryl Cage crap. Get some real interview prep.
Everyone has an issue in their past they need to address. Don't try to hide it because they will find out. And if you do not come clean to the person recommending you they cannot help you. And if you omit something on the app and SWA finds out, good luck on getting hired.
I may seem a little harsh guys, however. I had about fifteen people, mostly ATA guys, call me for a rec.
I asked all the guys the above questions and some had issues, one lied. But most did not have any clue how to address problem areas. Some could not even tell a basic resume format of their past in a chronological manner that flowed to me. Let alone a competitive interview.
I suggested to all to go get an interview prep from a person I highly recommended for a mere $150. Out of 15 guess how many took me up on my offer? 4 Guess how many out of the eleven that did not take my advice got hired. 0 Guess how many out of the 4 got hired? 3
Still not sure why he did not get hired but I know he will next time around.
My point is... Quit b1tching about not getting interviewed. Start preparing and do everything you can to be competitive.
As for military vs civilian:
The civilian guys simply do not interview as well as the military guys. Military guys are always going before a review board of sorts. They have been doing interview type presentations for their entire military careers.
Civilian boys and girls get interview prep!!
IF you are serious and want one of the best guys out their, PM me and I'll give you his name and number.
Good luck and ONLY POSITIVE ENERGY
J
Whoa, easy there tiger.
I simply tire of posts telling me about going downtown. I've been downtown before thank you.
"YOU ARE AN IDIOT"
Disagree without being disagreeable.
"Did I bad mouth civilians even remotely?"
You inferred it in bullet number four of your retort.
"I did drop off some of you guys in Mogadishu, Somalia, so when American Eagle or Comair do that, let me know"
I arrived in Mog in a C5 based in Dover I believe. I left there in civilian 747. The FE and Capt. came from a civil background, I asked. I asked simply looking for motivation for the course I was taking. I only now wish I had asked if they had come from Eagle or Comair.
Anyway, I've made my point. I yield the floor to you.
I simply tire of posts telling me about going downtown. I've been downtown before thank you.
"YOU ARE AN IDIOT"
Disagree without being disagreeable.
"Did I bad mouth civilians even remotely?"
You inferred it in bullet number four of your retort.
"I did drop off some of you guys in Mogadishu, Somalia, so when American Eagle or Comair do that, let me know"
I arrived in Mog in a C5 based in Dover I believe. I left there in civilian 747. The FE and Capt. came from a civil background, I asked. I asked simply looking for motivation for the course I was taking. I only now wish I had asked if they had come from Eagle or Comair.
Anyway, I've made my point. I yield the floor to you.
Russ,
You got me, somewhat. I actually expected the 747 example to show up after I submitted. Southern Air guys have some great stories too. Mogadishu is just one example, and whereas .1% of 747 civilian guys went, everyone in the military was eligible. Funny how you left in a 747 but arrived in a C5. Isn't that kind of like the Marines? You guys storm the beaches, then the Army comes in when you leave. That was a compliment, as my Dad was a Marine way back when. Sorry Army guys, don't want to offend you either. I've been to a few other places I never saw charter planes at, as they weren't allowed, let alone other airfields in Somalia as well. I'd have to kill you if I told you, but being you are a former Marine, I don't like the odds.
My fourth bullet was directed at you, not the rest, as it was you who questioned my background, which is posted, and hence my point. And my Eagle/Comair reference was just that, a reference, not a slam.
I probably shouldn't have used "idiot" in my statement, but then again, the implication was that military guys with no 121 time were getting hired over civilians with it. Come on now, even Rainman knows we don't fly 121, and never will, so the apples and oranges resumes won't line up quite the same.
Good luck.
You got me, somewhat. I actually expected the 747 example to show up after I submitted. Southern Air guys have some great stories too. Mogadishu is just one example, and whereas .1% of 747 civilian guys went, everyone in the military was eligible. Funny how you left in a 747 but arrived in a C5. Isn't that kind of like the Marines? You guys storm the beaches, then the Army comes in when you leave. That was a compliment, as my Dad was a Marine way back when. Sorry Army guys, don't want to offend you either. I've been to a few other places I never saw charter planes at, as they weren't allowed, let alone other airfields in Somalia as well. I'd have to kill you if I told you, but being you are a former Marine, I don't like the odds.
My fourth bullet was directed at you, not the rest, as it was you who questioned my background, which is posted, and hence my point. And my Eagle/Comair reference was just that, a reference, not a slam.
I probably shouldn't have used "idiot" in my statement, but then again, the implication was that military guys with no 121 time were getting hired over civilians with it. Come on now, even Rainman knows we don't fly 121, and never will, so the apples and oranges resumes won't line up quite the same.
Good luck.
All this interview discussion may be a moot point since I am sitting around on reserve with nothing to do and a fly me first preference in my display. I sat 4 days last week as the #1 guy to go out yet didn't get the call. We are fat on pilots after the loss of MSY and the strike at Boeing which has slowed deliveries. I have friends who are finishing their new hire checkrides this week and they were told they may be the last class this year. I hope this is wrong...
Mach Zero,
I think and hope it is wrong. We have seven deliveries to go this year or so I think. Boeing's strike, combined with MSY slowdown, could make it a wash, as we might not need all 7, but I think we will take them and put them to good use elsewhere. MSY is not our powerhouse station, so I don't expect it to ruin things for us. With retirements and even a little continued growth, you and your buds will be getting all the flying you want. Rule #1 to remember from guys just out of training is not to believe anything they were told. Seems to change weekly, like the yearly new domicile discussion.
I think and hope it is wrong. We have seven deliveries to go this year or so I think. Boeing's strike, combined with MSY slowdown, could make it a wash, as we might not need all 7, but I think we will take them and put them to good use elsewhere. MSY is not our powerhouse station, so I don't expect it to ruin things for us. With retirements and even a little continued growth, you and your buds will be getting all the flying you want. Rule #1 to remember from guys just out of training is not to believe anything they were told. Seems to change weekly, like the yearly new domicile discussion.
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