Unofficial SWA Hiring Mins

[TV9Driver]

I've flown with some great ex-military pilots and i've flown with some horrible ex-military pilots. I have flown with some great civilian pilots and I've flown with some horrible civilian pilots. Your background doesn't matter. If I hopped in a c172 right now i'd scare the sh*t out of the flight instructor sitting next to me. And if he/she jumped in the jet i'm flying now, he'd scare the sh*t out of me. Just because you are the best bomber/fighter pilot in the military doesn't mean you are good at flying an Airbus from New York to San Fransisco everyday. Just because you used to be a RJ captain doesn't mean you know everything about the airlines either. I just had a "retired Commander in the United State Navy" (he let me know about that fact ever 5 minutes) taxi us across an active runway with no clearance - putting my life and career in jeopardy.

So, I guess my point is, we all suck and we all make mistakes and no one is better than another because of their background- and the sooner everyone figures that out the safer and happier we will all be.

 

[radarlove]

It is tough but yes I do. Oh no a hair out of place. Need to get that fixed. Can''t go out not looking good. Buddy, you missed the point of the post. But looking at you profile, I can see why. There goes the sterotyping again....I need to stop that, but wait, it seems to be true.

What stereotyping? That military guys often fall into the trap of being too pompous for their own good, as evidenced by your Top Gun-type diatribe above?


And what in my profile leads you to stereotype? The Tylenol part? If you don't know Airplane by heart, there's no way you're ready for a job at the majors.

 

[RedDogC130]

TV9 Driver hit it square on the head. I agree to it 100%. Radar, trust me, I am not a military pompous freak by any means. I just have the view point that others flying both civilian and military have. I have the experience seeing both sides of the table, radarlove...do you? If you do then you see the differences between the types of flying. Anyone can fly a plane, it is what you do when stuff goes wrong that counts. No I am not saying civilian only can't handle it but have flown 5 years of civilian before I flew in the military and seeing the training differences, I can say for sure the military trains for what can go wrong more times that civilian training. I would put my money on a newly winged military pilot over a civilian trained new commercial pilot from the best schools in America any day of the week. I have the advantage to have gone through one of those great programs and I know the standards and experience they train to. Enough from me..for now.

 

[HotelMonkey]

.....

 

[jimEJet]

I'm sorry, I may be getting sucked into something I know I shouldn't, however.

What makes a military guy more apt to deal with stress again?

Because 10% of the miltary guys flight time may be under stressful circumstances? I know you guys can deal with multi-tasking. (ie: dropping bombs, locking on targets) However, it really boils down to individuals doesn't it?

Tell me that there are not weak pilots in your UNIT? You fail to recognize that every group, including the ultra elite, have weak links. Unfortunately everyone that's weak does not get weeded out. I have flown with many weak civilians. And quite few weak miltary guys. And when I say weak, it simply means tasks could be done more expeditiously and CONFIDENTLY. Confidence in flying has a great deal more to do than stick skills. It in my humble opinion it is shear decision making ability.

I know you guys know the type of captain that hides behind the book. They will be the guys that are flying an approach and are such good captains that they will be turning engine anti-ice on and off at 600 ft AGL all be themselves. Because they know the book says to do it when the temperature is between 10 and negative 40 degrees celcius. Now this is the same guy who just got done busting my chops about nicky picky little things all day long.

You know the guys. They spend the night before reading the FOM in their hotel rooms only to bust your chops the whole day long about how you should know this stuff. They are weak. You notice the weak ones are always always the ones who micro-manage the sh1t out of their copilots because they're afraid of getting out of parameters for just a second because they're weak and unsure of there abilties.

Now, like I said. I have come across both military and civilian pilots who could fall into this category, however. I'm not sure if knowing the book's nuances and tid bits of info makes a better pilot. Because when the sh1t hits the fan those little things really do not make a sh1t of difference.

I tend to see a common theme among Air Force guys I fly with however. They seem to fit the category of micro-managing. And have a tendency to evaluate there counterparts quite a bit. Not to say that's not probably the environment they came from. And sometimes being a captain it is your responsibility and duty to point out unsafe actions to your copilot. But I submit to anyone reading this board, not knowing the psi ratings of the fuel pumps on board the 737 will not effect my ability to safely fly the aircraft.

When my all knowing air force colonel captain reaches up and turns on the engine anti-ice at 600 ft AGL flying a no sh1t approach because he thinks the aircraft will fall out of the sky if we don't have it on in southern california. And when doing so, we have amber lights that say hydraulic low pressure. The dumb a$$ turns off the eng and elec pumps off instead.

You see, I would much rather fly with a laid back SAFE pilot whether civilian or military (other than AIr Force COLONELS

Like I said civilian or military doesn't really matter, individuals really do

BLAH BLAH BLAH

Let the flaming start all over

 

[radarlove]

I would put my money on a newly winged military pilot over a civilian trained new commercial pilot from the best schools in America any day of the week. I have the advantage to have gone through one of those great programs and I know the standards and experience they train to.

One of the big civ/mil differences is that the civilian guys don't spend quite so much time explaining how good they are.

BTW, I hate to hit a sore spot, but this might be good for you in the long run. Do you think perhaps that any of your attitude came out in the interview?

I'm not saying this to hit below the belt, because I'm sure you're a fine person and horribly dissapointed. But still, I read your message and felt compelled to reply, since (to my eyes) it oozed pomposity. Two messages later, you explain how you really meant it. D'oh!

A little humility goes a long way, just ask a F-teen driver during his first hour in a B737 simulator. And yes, even those "best of the best" often require extra training sessions, even though they went through the training program you brag about.

The civ/mil debate is fueled quite often by statements like yours.

In this business, experience, intelligence and situational awareness are all that count. I don't care how good an ab-initio program is, you still have those three factors that count and none of them can be replaced by training.

If you read the bestseller "blink" which explains how so much of what we do/decisions that we make never make it to a cognitive center of the brain, but are instead subconcious and immediate (think "hot stove") you'll start to understand why experience is so important and sought after. You can explain to a student on a chalk board all day long what a "flare" is, but good luck getting a good one out of him the first try.

 

[HotelMonkey]

"Have you ever busted a type ride and any rating check?"

I have failed a ride before, so does that mean I just wasted 8Gs??

 

[PHX767]

The comparision between the 2 types of flying should not come into it. One guy sucked at the interview...me the others did not....them.

And that my friends, says it all. End of thread, end of this perpetual dead horse beating.

I too, got an interview even though I did not have a type in the 737. No job offer for me. A guy in my group was a 1700 hour fighter jock, and he got hired, along with some of the regional and cargo guys that were there. Why? Because they were what SWA were looking for. Period. End of statement. Am I going back for another shot if they asked? Nope. I am not going to morph into anything different at this stage of my life, so I'm still the guy they interviewed and did not choose.

My pet theory on why guys get hired on the second and subsequent interviews is that they evolve as pilots and humans. When they come back they project this and it is very appealing to SWA. Others, I am sure learn to game the system, become better with practice and present the face that SWA wants to see.

So, mil or civ just doesn't make a difference. It's who you are.

 

[RedDogC130]

Radarlove.....fair enough. Like I said and PHX pointed out...I sucked that day others did not. The end for me on this topic....later

 

[jimEJet]

Hotel Monkey

I have failed a ride before, so does that mean I just wasted 8Gs??

NEGATIVE!!!

Hotel Monkey,

You could have falied three checks!

It does not matter. What matters is your reaction, explanation or your realization what you messed up on those checkrides. And more importantly what you have doen since you busted your ride.

Did you bust a type? Fine
The next day I retook the checkride and passed! I know now that I will make a left turn in that hold instead of the right

We all mess up, is my point. You need to be prepared to talk about it, that's all.

No matter what the mistake in your life is...

Career, personal, criminal (DUI , public intoxication in college)

Whatever it is you need to be prepared when they ask the uncomfortable question.

Get interview prep, that's the point.

Good luck Hotel!