(Unoffical) ASA Stike Vote ... yes or no

[Jungle Prop]

Yes Yes Yes

 

[goahead]

Okay disregard the three pussies that can't figure out how to do a visual w/o the app plate. It an overwhelming yes vote for everyone except management.

ANYWAY next topic.....

 

[HoserASA]

YES!
There, I cancelled out JB's no vote!


Hoser​

 

[ohplease!]

No. Someone has to have some sense around here.

Its a strike VOTE, idiot. It doesn't mean you want to or we're going to. Learn the difference junior.

 

[ohplease!]

I think Joe Merchant might be the previousely BANNED from flight info LEC treasurer. AKA: INCLUSIVESCOPE


I VOTE YES...

and you're still the biggest dicckhead here. Have a heart attack would ya'?!? dork

 

["GO AROUND"]

The big question is what the mediator is going to do if we come to an impass. He could park us and even with a 98-99% approval for a strike we would have to do it from the flight deck. If it does I'm in.

IMHO, I don't see it coming to that. I think improvements have and are being made with the changes in mngmnt. I think there is no trust between the two sides and that is a huge obstacle to overcome.

We shall see.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Its a strike VOTE, idiot. It doesn't mean you want to or we're going to. Learn the difference junior.

The problem is that if you vote for a strike, there isn't a checkbox for "I'm voting for a strike to send a message, but I don't really want to strike." A vote for it, means that you are willing to strike. I am not, so I won't vote for it.

By the way, the democrats learned this lesson too. They wanted to vote for a war with Iraq to send Saddam a message, not actually go to war. But, once they had authorized it, it was really hard to say they didn't intend to go to war. Same thing with the strike vote. I won't vote to send management a message when I don't really want a strike.

I understand the difference. I think it is you that don't understand the full implications of the strike vote, Junior.

 

[JustaNumber]

Let me think for a minute...okay, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will NOT take whatever management gives me. I'm NOT just happy to have a flying job. I will quit if things get worse, and thats why you miss the point.

If you quit as an individual, nobody notices or cares, and nothing changes. If you "quit" as a group with 1700 other pilots, your concerns are guaranteed to be noted. Do you think a company that just shelled out hundreds of millions for a company known to be in labor negotiations would shut the doors over refusing a small increase in quality of life for the employees?

My point is that voting on a strike will do no good. (Actually having one would just put the company under, so that certainly doesn't help either.) I think it will make things more adversarial, and it will hurt the negotiation process, and make management even more likely to do things we don't want just to piss us off.

I could be mistaken, but I believe I read somewhere that 90% of ALPA contracts are signed during the 30-day-cooling-off-period AFTER A STRIKE VOTE HAS BEEN VOTED ON. It seems this tactic is necessary to light a fire under both sides to get serious about agreeing to a contract.

I think the best way to get better results is to go to management not as an adversary, but as a partner.

You mean, like using Interest Based Bargaining? Been there, done that, lets try something else now. By the way, did I mention, HELL YES!!!?

 

[Plug]

ASA Aviator,

You seem to contradict yourself. You say you won't vote Yes but then say that if things get worse that you'll leave. What do you think a strike is? Stck up for yourself and be consistent. Either your in or your not. If your not, so be it, however, most of us are willing to put our asses on the line for ya.

JB,

Grow up! How those minutes coming along?

 

[Plug]

Delta would be done--we are in the best position then we will ever been in--it will take weeks for someone to take our flights 500 flights aday....Delta would be done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a very true statement. Delta is in a very fragile state and we have a monopoly for DCI in their only profitable hub.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

ASA Aviator,

You seem to contradict yourself. You say you won't vote Yes but then say that if things get worse that you'll leave. What do you think a strike is? Stck up for yourself and be consistent. Either your in or your not. If your not, so be it, however, most of us are willing to put our asses on the line for ya.

JB,

Grow up! How those minutes coming along?

Well, I am anti-union. In my previous career I was in management, and I've been threatened, bullied, and attacked by unions. I only am a part of the union because I am forced to pay dues, and if I have to pay dues, I'm darn sure going to have a vote.

Anyway, yes, you are right, leaving is similar to striking, but I will do so on my terms, and not because I am trying to send a message to anyone, but rather because I don't want to be here anymore. I signed on to this job knowing what the conditions of the contract were, and it would be hypocritical of me to strike or quit when I came in knowing what it would be like.

 

[ASApuppy]

The Pup is in with a YES. When do I get the real ballot?

ps. ASA Aviator sounds a lot like "avoiceof reason", which sounds a lot like management. Step away from the computer Scott!!!!

 

[701EV]

Hey Plug,

Which mgmt puke do you think is ASA_Avatior? I don't think its JB.

701EV

 

[ASA_Aviator]

By the way, I am willing to hang my job on the line in defense of anyone. Being anti-union is not the same as being against my colleagues. Unions just tend to have a thug mentality, and an anti-intellectual attitude, and I find it to be very distasteful. If I wanted to be a thug, I would move to East Point...

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Hey Plug,

Which mgmt puke do you think is ASA_Avatior? I don't think its JB.

701EV

Funny, to disagree with you guys means I must be management... Far from it.

 

[JustaNumber]

By the way, I am willing to hang my job on the line in defense of anyone. Being anti-union is not the same as being against my colleagues. Unions just tend to have a thug mentality, and an anti-intellectual attitude, and I find it to be very distasteful. If I wanted to be a thug, I would move to East Point...

I agree that the word "union" in this country often connotes images of the thug mentality that you refer to. But I also believe that your union is what you make it. A union is simply that, a bunch of workers getting together in a "union" to work together for some mutual cause. The union guys in East Point or wherever you talk about have that mentality in their daily lives, and it shows in how they conduct themselves in their union. Pilots, on the other hand, tend to be much more intellectual, and for the most part, I am proud of the way our local MEC leadership (with one or two exceptions) have shown themselves to be intellectually superior and more intellectually honest than management in almost every interaction. I don't think pilots will ever change the image of unions, but we can still be proud of the way we conduct ourselves.

 

[socony_air]

Another Yes.... There's no chance I'll do this job for a dime less.... Already looking into non-aviation options; so far, to leave would mean weekends off & a pay raise in 6 months.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I agree that the word "union" in this country often connotes images of the thug mentality that you refer to. But I also believe that your union is what you make it. A union is simply that, a bunch of workers getting together in a "union" to work together for some mutual cause. The union guys in East Point or wherever you talk about have that mentality in their daily lives, and it shows in how they conduct themselves in their union. Pilots, on the other hand, tend to be much more intellectual, and for the most part, I am proud of the way our local MEC leadership (with one or two exceptions) have shown themselves to be intellectually superior and more intellectually honest than management in almost every interaction. I don't think pilots will ever change the image of unions, but we can still be proud of the way we conduct ourselves.

I hope you are right. My opinion is somewhat skewed, I admit. Once, I came across a pilot scab list, and at the top was the following paragraph, and it certainly reeks of the typical union mentality... I've attached it below. When people quit spouting rhetoric like this, I'll be happy about being in the union.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a SCAB. A SCAB is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water-logged brain, and a combination backbone made of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When a SCAB comes down the street, men turn their back and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out. No man has a right to SCAB as long as there is a pool of water deep enough to drown his body in, or a rope long enough to hang his carcass with. Judas Iscariot was a gentleman compared with a SCAB. For betraying his Master, he had character enough to hang himself. A SCAB HASN’T!"[/FONT]

 

[Muff-N-Man]

Confirmative (Yes).

 

[pudnocker]

Yep! and Yes!

 

[probablecause]

yes, Yep, You Bet, Si, Oui, Ja, Sim, да, Etc...

 

[Tim47SIP]

What are you talking about?

You lied about BA being a leader in the PATCO strike, you are lying about "our side starting to drag out things on purpose"

Dood, he did not lie about it. BA was in a leadership position with PATCO. You are miss informed. JB has not lied about anything so far. Because we may not agree with him, does not mean he is a liar.

 

[D'Angelo]

Well, I am anti-union. In my previous career I was in management, and I've been threatened, bullied, and attacked by unions. I only am a part of the union because I am forced to pay dues, and if I have to pay dues, I'm darn sure going to have a vote.

Anyway, yes, you are right, leaving is similar to striking, but I will do so on my terms, and not because I am trying to send a message to anyone, but rather because I don't want to be here anymore. I signed on to this job knowing what the conditions of the contract were, and it would be hypocritical of me to strike or quit when I came in knowing what it would be like.

Props to you my friend! If the union truly wanted a democracy then they would give you a choice if you wanted to be in or not. They like running things like old russia or how Tony Soprano runs things in Jersey. Its either their way or the highway. If you actually dare think for yourself they just go ballistic. If you dont agree with what the majority says they want to use violence to try and scare you into thinking their way. Sorry thugs but this is the USA. There are a lot of people who pay dues because they are forced to not because they want to be in the union. Its either pay the dues or get fired. If the union was really that unified then why does membership need to be forced? If they are so confident why not give people a choice if they want to be in or not? Oh thats right they are protecting us from actually enjoying our jobs because we are all supposed to be avid management haters. Im all for letting whoever wants to be in a union be in one but why force everyone into it?

 

[ASADriver]

NO! Look around - things aren't that bad here.

 

[Bizjet]

You lied about BA being a leader in the PATCO strike, you are lying about "our side starting to drag out things on purpose"

Dood, he did not lie about it. BA was in a leadership position with PATCO. You are miss informed. JB has not lied about anything so far. Because we may not agree with him, does not mean he is a liar.

Dood, You've been had by Joe. Either he lied or didn't talk to former PATCO guys. There are still some of the PATCO guys at ASA. Make you own calls and ask. BA was just a controller and held no position in the Union. But who really cares anyway? Joe has crossed the line with his anti ALPA BS. Majority rules in a union and Joe will never grasp the obvious. That boy is one angry unit! I visualize him as a child lying on the floor of a toy store screaming as he has a death grip on on a new toy and his parents start asking observers of the tantrum if anyone knows where the rotten little kids parents are?

With that said I don't think Joe or anyone else should be silenced. They have the right to dissent. If we all held the same opinions there is no checks and balances. The Union and the Company need to be held accountable for their actions. Given the history here I will trust the Union to guard my six. The company should spend more time trying to get out of last place so that the employees aren't embarrassed to tell their freinds where they really work.

Come back in one piece. ASA will still be in last place.

My two typing fingers are sore so I'm outta here!

 

[goodto50meters]

By the way, I am willing to hang my job on the line in defense of anyone. Being anti-union is not the same as being against my colleagues. Unions just tend to have a thug mentality, and an anti-intellectual attitude, and I find it to be very distasteful. If I wanted to be a thug, I would move to East Point...

Thugs? Youre not serious right? Have you ever met Utley, Mohr, Newey, Zerb, Bob? These guys are far from being thugs man!

This isnt the 30's with bats and jimmie hats....although that might be fun

 

[goodto50meters]

You lied about BA being a leader in the PATCO strike, you are lying about "our side starting to drag out things on purpose"

Dood, he did not lie about it. BA was in a leadership position with PATCO. You are miss informed. JB has not lied about anything so far. Because we may not agree with him, does not mean he is a liar.

Check your facts and your source, BA was not a PATCO leader, he was an avid strike supporter but not an officer or anything.

The "dragging things out on purpose" is not true, its preposterous.

Plus the PATCO strike was 25 years ago, Hoser is right, what does it have to do with ASA in 2006?

You are right that he is entitled to disagree all he wants, he is not entitled to make up things to support his agenda whatever that is. My guess is it supports RJDC's mission to rape ALPA financially by attempting to make it look bad.....I just finished watching an Oliver Stone flick

 

["GO AROUND"]

Props to you my friend!

If you talked like that on the flight deck I'd slap the headsets off your head.

If the union truly wanted a democracy then they would give you a choice if you wanted to be in or not.

They do dumba$$. But you pay the dues cause you still live under the contract that the union negotiated.

They like running things like old russia or how Tony Soprano runs things in Jersey. Its either their way or the highway. If you actually dare think for yourself they just go ballistic. If you dont agree with what the majority says they want to use violence to try and scare you into thinking their way. Sorry thugs but this is the USA.

Get off the crack pipe! Yeah, its like that, idiot.

There are a lot of people who pay dues because they are forced to not because they want to be in the union. Its either pay the dues or get fired.

Noone forced you to apply for an take a job at a union airline. It was there before you and it will be there after you. Go fly corporate or a non union airline.

If the union was really that unified then why does membership need to be forced? If they are so confident why not give people a choice if they want to be in or not? Oh thats right they are protecting us from actually enjoying our jobs because we are all supposed to be avid management haters. Im all for letting whoever wants to be in a union be in one but why force everyone into it?

Noone tells me to hate managment, they did that by themselves. I used to have respect for our managment 5 years ago. Again the union was voted in before you and you are benifiting from all the union has done in past and present negotiations, grievances, etc... But things would be better without our union? I told you to put the crack pipe down!

You don't want to be in a union but you want to benifit from all the good things that the union has brought to your airline without paying for those benifits. That's why you pay dues even though you're not a member.

D'Angelo, don't you have to be blowing Fred or something? You never answered if you got your new nametag or not. "Fred's Bit*h" Right?

F*ck Off, allright!!!

 

[OCP]

Its intereresting reading about how its not that bad and "I knew what I was getting into when I took the job" Well you should have known that when you took that job it meant you were taking a UNION job. If you dislike the union so much why did you take a job where you "knew" a union existed? So for all those who say that "you knew what you were getting into when you took the job" I say that right back at you. Like it or not you took a job in a unionized labor group. Yes the union speaks for the majority. Thats just how it works.

 

[white knuckle]

Amen!