Universal Seniority List?

[Masterplan]

I've watched my friends over the last ten years move from one company to another and most of the time get a raise and at the very least maintain their current salary and duties. Of course this was all outside the realm of aviation, but I have often wondered why we as pilots can't do the same. There really is no way to say one pilot is better than another based on pure skill and if large pilot groups had to have there seniority and pay increased by a subjective criteria and the opinion of their boss it would no doubt cause chaos in the pilot ranks and the HR office. That being said what would be the pro's and con's of having a seniority number based on the date you got your ATP and it could be interchanged between operators regardless of 135 vs 121 or regional vs major? For example American Eagle and Horizon FO's would not be stuck in their 10 year "seat lock" and could move to something like Skywest or Express Jet (just a hypothetical example) and slot right into the list based on that date and possibly upgrade faster. Or if you were a TWA captain and pre American takeover move to United or the like and slot in there. Would this not make pilot salaries and benefits more competitive? Would it not make the US Air and America West or United/Continental merger easier? Would it make companies provide a better work environment to keep their valued employees? I've always thought the most difficult aspect of choosing this career was that you had better make the right choice as to where you choose to work because your pay and schedule often revolve around the seniority that you have built. If you move laterally either for a better commute or more corporate safety that seniority is lost. Because of that many of us are handcuffed in the bed we have made. Please tell me why this would or would not work. I would like to hear all sides because I can't come up with all the possibilities.
Thanks

 

[St. Nic]

THree letters: DOH

 

[michael707767]

Two letters: N O

 

[bluebound]

Why must we have this same discussion again? It will never happen. Choose your company wisely, and don't stay with a bad company. Does your research before you go for an interview? An interview is not a one way street. You must make sure they are the one company you want to attach your seniority number to. If that company falls onto hard times, that's life, move on, and don't ask why you aren’t getting more because you feel like you deserve it. This is just like the 65'rs. You knew what the retirement age was long ago. You should have planned for the occasion (getting divorced three times is not my fault). The more responsibility we take on for ourselves the fewer decisions other people will make for us.

 

[General Lee]

Sorry, your career is just a roll of the dice. Nobody says you have to be an airline pilot, vs a corporate pilot, or fire fighting air tanker pilot. If you choose the wrong airline, too bad. You also don't have to work at a certain airline. It is a choice when you get and do that interview. A big ole NO to a Universal Seniority List.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cowboy75]

Sorry, your career is just a roll of the dice. Nobody says you have to be an airline pilot, vs a corporate pilot, or fire fighting air tanker pilot. If you choose the wrong airline, too bad. You also don't have to work at a certain airline. It is a choice when you get and do that interview. A big ole NO to a Universal Seniority List.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Too bad some people can't handle life in general. Take St Nic for example, he had everything planned out and ooops a bump in the road. Ended up at a failing airline, gets a second chance and tries revive these grand plans at the expense of fellow pilots.

Too bad, we are not going to let him get away with it.

DOHDOA

 

[St. Nic]

Thanks for highjacking another thread mr AWA pilot. I see the two red-tail career crushers are chiming in to. What a suprise

 

[MCDU]

First off AWA was a failing airline and would be gone without the merger.

So, the United and AMR furloughed pilots chose the wrong airline and Delta furloughed pilots chose the right on. They got it all figured out. I tell you why some pilots do not want DOH. Greed and sense of entitlement at the time. Just like PFT. Advancement at all cost. does not matter who you step over. It's the American way and why this profession has gone downhill. All due to short term gains at the expense of others. That is why ALPA failed being A Union.

Seniority. Drives everything in this job. Vacation, line-holder (or not), equipment, pay.A first year pilot does not get the same benefits as some one with 17 years. Why should that change? Because greed and sense of entitlement of pilots who think they deserve something fast. Just like PFT. Pilots are their own worst enemy.

M

 

[C180drvr]

It's naive and plain stupid to think anyone can 'choose' the 'right' airline. You won't know until after you retire. To think a pilot has some keen foresight to choose 'wisely' is ridiculous and the crux of our problems. Everyone tries for the best option at the time, but airlines change tremendously and the pilots shouldn't have to go down with the ship, starting their career over.

Our poor pay is in part attributable to the inability to transfer among companies, like most professionals. My friend who practices law, takes a bonus and raise anytime she moves to another firm. She questions why only pilots match pay 'cuts' and why pilots tend to focus on who makes 'less' as a barometer of our success - if carrier X pays less than us, I must be doing well - said by many pilots.

The industry is in the toilet and the professionalism and skill of our pilots is exploited by the airlines and cheap tickets. Seniority is a way to retain pilots without using pay as an incentive to retain good talent, like what's required for every other company. Employee retention - nonexistent concept in airlines. There must be a better way.

 

[MCDU]

By the way.
DOH is not arbitrary. It is recognized by just about every union as a fair and concrete method to establish seniority. C&R's, constructed in good faith, eliminate discrimination.
Just ask Atlas and Polar how their merger went under ALPA. Without the joint contract before the NWA and Delta would be a cluster as well.

M