rudderdog said:
Sure, there are hundreds of AA pilots on furough. And, of course, I wish no furlough for any of us. But, the "windfall" is because they are 2000 and 2001 hires. The TWA guys are captains furloughed back to 1988 and maybe 87 here soon. ACQUIRED does not mean loss of senority. If you think that, your "aquired logic" is flawed. Again, the plan and intent of the acquisition was not the same as others you speak of. The junior pilots ARE getting a windfall simply because they are still working.... Hello..... And they WILL upgrade sooner because of all the seniority they gained overnight. You are familiar with how this whole seniority thing works, right?
Do you know what happens in chapter 11? As part of the deal, TWA filed CH-11. In that process AA decided which debt and contracts (literally hundreds) to take on. And most of those contracts were renegotiated. So, your debt logic is flawed. Ever heard of Worldspan???
AA would have furloughed just like DAL and UAL if not for TWA. Many that still have jobs today at AA would have been gone for a year now or at the very least those recent AA furloughes would have taken place much sooner. That is a windfall.
Funny how all we heard during the deal was how AA historically buys airlines and gets rid of the planes but keeps the employees. That was their argument. With 120+ TWA aircraft still flying and only around 550 TWA pilots remaining, their main argument was seriously "flawed".
Btw, I don't think our remaining pilots can go to other bases yet. And not to other aircraft (777 or airbus) LIKE THE AQUIRED RENO GUYS CAN. Even if their seniority can hold it. "Windfall"
OK, I'll attempt them one at a time.
You say it is a windfall because the junior AA guys are 2000-2001 hires. Wen exactly did they negotiate to be 2000-2001 hires? They can't control when they get hired. So TWA Captains from 1988 are getting furloughed? WHat about 1988 USAir guys getting furloughed? They were captains too. It doesn't matter what airline... under certain economic conditions, ANYONE can get furloughed. The fact that the junior AA guys are '00 and '01 hires is about as important as your eye color. Big deal.
Since TWA was ACQUIRED, and voluntarily declared bankruptcy AFTER the ACQUISITION, I do believe it was AA's preoragtive on which contracts to void and which to continue. As such, it is also logical that the pilots associated with the MORE FINANCIALLY STABLE airline keep certain RIGHTFUL SENIORITY options... simply because of the fact that TWA was not in a postion to negotiate. That is true in all of corporate America.
The junior AA pilots can not control the fact that they are still working. When they were hired in 2000, they had no clue as to what kind of sinking ship AA was about to take on. SO therefore it is NOT a windfall, because they did NOT negotiate on when they were hired.
AA would NOT have furloughed as many had in not been for the TWA takeover, simply because they would have been in a much better financial position, without the crapload of debt associated with TWA. We would have had half of our furloughees still working today. Regardless of the contracts that are renegotiated, a debt is a debt. I can renegotiate a 17% credit card to a 0% credit card, but I'd still have the debt, just at no interest.
AA only has 3 more aircraft right now compared to the acquisition date, the result of the F100 retirements and aircraft in the desert. So they did get rid of a bunch of aircraft. Who cares if its AA or TWA aircraft? The point is, there's still 550 TWA pilots flying their own aircraft, as well as a ton of AA pilots flying their own aircraft. Where's the problem?
Who cares if the TWA pilots can't go to other bases??? WHY WOULD THEY? They can remain as Captains for the next 15 years with a seniority number good for MD80 FO or MAYBE 767 FO, tops, anywhere else. That is definitely a windfall for TWA pilots.
Maybe if all the TWA pilots were stapled like the Reno guys, there wouldn't be fences. The very fact that half the TWAy pilots got an integration, AND A LONG ASS CAPTAIN FENCE makes the widebody fences pretty reasonable.
So far, we're 1 for 1 on windfalls - You say AA got a windfall by their junior guys still employed, I say TWA got a winfdfall by letting low seniority guys remain Captain in STL.... So far, seems pretty fair and equitable to me.
Finally, if you we re furloughed as a result of the Acquisition, I wish you the best.. and all of the other thousands that have been furloughed, whether it be from a merger, 9-11, incompetent management, etc.
