United Airlines F/O makes a stand!

[Mugs]

Sure Mugs......Actually I don't think "taking a hit" for the profession is either realistic or advisable. It's a dog eat dog business and I find the ALPA releases, like the one I mentioned, irritating. Usually they talk about saving the quality of major airlines jobs so we can get them in the future. I'm not an I-Air flag waiver either....I just used to fly their airplanes around for a living. If most of us were honest around here we would say we are watching out for our own interests first and the "profession" second if at all. I believe UAL and ALPA are watching out for their own interests first and could care less about the profession as a whole if it hurts them. Silence from ALPA and UAL pilots when union express flying is replaced with non-union carriers. That's why press release, like the one I mentioned, tend to piss me off. Nothing personal....when UAL tanks, which I believe will happen, I'll be glad to walk your resume in to I-Air after they get done with recalls.

Recalls? Did they furlough? What? They haven't even been in business a year yet. But you would walk a resume in for me? Gee, thanks. I guess.

 

[IHaveAPension]

As far as pensions go, it is over, and we lost. The sooner we accept that we failed to play the game to our advantage, the better.

The pay and compensation packages we are seeing now is probably going to be the new paradigm for years to come. If UAL can't make money at the current pay rates, it is unlikely that anyone will be able to justify paying much more than that.

And with the ever-increasing number of pilots willing to fly for less, it is unlikely that pilots as a group will ever have the supply-and-demand ball back in their court.

The best game that can be played now is defense - preventing further losses.
Gains in pilot compensation are probably years in the future.

Here's an intererseing speculative question - when do you think the next real raise will occur at a major airline other than SWA?

I give it at least five years. Or more.

My pension is quite secure and for well into the future too, and we are going to make substantial increases in pay with out new contract! Don't paint with such a wide brush, there are profitable operators out there!

 

[skykid]

My pension is quite secure

We figured you thought that from your username. Got a government pension coming? I do, and I don't even consider it secure.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Recalls? Did they furlough? What? They haven't even been in business a year yet. But you would walk a resume in for me? Gee, thanks. I guess.

A little Smug there Mugs. Yup.....lots of ACA/I-Air furloughees out there. Curtesy UAL bankruptcy. I'll be glad to walk your resume in. We need good folks to clean up around here, assuming you make the grade.

 

[Capt1124]

What an idiot. I swear if I was in airline management I'd wear a T shirt to work every day that said "You've obviously confused me with somebody who gives a s***." Nobody cares, and nobody thinks airline pilots are the kings of the world, except airline pilots.

Your pay and defined benefit pension payments are dependent on a stream of income that comes from the customers. If they are willing to pay a certain price for your company's service now and for enough years into the future, you will collect that money, if not you won't regardless of what your contract says.

The people that Zogg should be mad at are the management and employees at the LCCs, who are providing the same service and much lower cost. I avoid southwest if I can but the passenger just is not going to pay very much more to go from A to B.

I empathize with how Zogg feels- it hurts a lot more to gain something, or think you have, and then lose it than to never have it- but he should have stuck with ranting on the message boards.

 

[Mugs]

A little Smug there Mugs. Yup.....lots of ACA/I-Air furloughees out there. Curtesy UAL bankruptcy. I'll be glad to walk your resume in. We need good folks to clean up around here, assuming you make the grade.

Courtesy, you mean, of a low fare business plan that calls primarily for high seat cost per mile aircraft for short haul routes. Having been through plenty of management blunders myself, I can see that you are having a tough time accepting your own management's incompetence. Hence the need to "clean up."

Assuming I make the grade? You sound like an FSI or Riddle type. You are right, I might be suspect since I don't have that powerful experience to draw on. Not to mention I lack the Aviation Management major to complete the package. Maybe with a few tips from you I could manage to just barely scrape by.

It's funny how you guys continue to blame UAL for your dilemma. Tell me why UAL should have paid a premium for ACA service when lowering costs was unfortunately mandatory? I commute on Express all the time. Sorry to say it, but I can't see any difference between any of them from presentation to operational performance. Why should UAL have paid more for the same product in this industry environment, especially with JetBlue gearing up for small markets? It sounds to me like your complaint lies with those that out bid you and your management's decision to try a business plan that has been universally panned on Wall Street.

 

[AA717driver]

The people that Zogg should be mad at are the management and employees at the LCCs, who are providing the same service and much lower cost. I avoid southwest if I can but the passenger just is not going to pay very much more to go from A to B.

We're going to PHX next week on SWA. $89 one way. Sure, I'd rather be sitting up in First swilling free booze--but not for $1,200 one way. And certainly not in coach getting the same (or, in most cases worse) service and treatment for $450 r/t on AA, et al.

The market has been changed for better or worse. Some are adapting. Some aren't. As a result, pax expectations have changed. They know they won't be getting a meal--but they won't pay $400 bucks when they can pay $200 for the same service.TC

 

[Capt. JD]

Retirement Plans: A, B, 401K, but now C?

What exactly are these A & B plans? UAL now has a C plan!
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/9/16/
The Legacy all have the A, B, 401K, profit sharing

Some of the regional have the B plans, but most just have a 401K

I think I want to get hired & retire at Colgan...
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/68/18/
or maybe Great Lakes...
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/70/18/
It a toss up, I can tell they both take care of there people...

 

[scarlet]

who cares about michael moore and Bush is doing such a great job with this country don't you think....

Did we win the war yet--oh no--it is STILL going on--Fuel rich country and our fuel prices go up--that hurts at home but hurts the airlines really bad....but oh W is doing a great job....he has done NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop all the dam# medicine commmericals on tv---NO--they give Washington so much money....did we have these ads 20 years ago on tv--NO

 

[:-)]

who cares about michael moore and Bush is doing such a great job with this country don't you think....

Did we win the war yet--oh no--it is STILL going on--Fuel rich country and our fuel prices go up--that hurts at home but hurts the airlines really bad....but oh W is doing a great job....he has done NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop all the dam# medicine commmericals on tv---NO--they give Washington so much money....did we have these ads 20 years ago on tv--NO

this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs.

Please tell us scarlet, which drug are you smoking?

brought to you by PAPUTI

Pilots Against Posting Under The Influence.

Calvin

 

[FlyinScotsman]

This industry was going down the tubes long before George W got in office . Don't blame him....I will admit he isn't doing much about it, but I see it like blaming the Principal for you not doing well in your math class. He could do something, but why when you got yourself in this mess?

 

[WhiteCloud]

It's funny how you guys continue to blame UAL for your dilemma. Tell me why UAL should have paid a premium for ACA service when lowering costs was unfortunately mandatory?

Because it was working and everyone was making money on it. The final UAL offer wasn't going to make money for ACA. Also, it boiled down to a battle of egos (UAL and ACA management) rather than stricktly a financial one

[/QUOTE] I commute on Express all the time. Sorry to say it, but I can't see any difference between any of them from presentation to operational performance. [/QUOTE]

Like most of us here I fly on all sorts of airlines. You certainly can see the effect of bankruptcy on the UAL employees. Lots of misery on peoples faces.

 

[Capt. JD]

Letter to UAL

Hello Capt. JD, well I finally got around to this forum with my letter and read some of the comments. Most are not very friendly or supportive but I didn't expect that letter to get so much attention. I do however wish to thank you for your support for at least voicing my oppinion. I believe most will not say or do anything to bring attention and trouble to themselves and simply standby and watch their careers disapear. I was reinstated back to flying after 5 weeks off.
Back living the dream! David Zogg

A private message from F/O Zogg on Sept 30, 2005...

My response...

Hey no problem! The improvement of this indusrty has to start with the pilots that have guts & balls... Sadly, guys like you & I are not the norm these days... There happens to be allot of pu$$y faggots out there, I meet them all the time... In my opinion the airline industry is kinda a lost cause because there are to many of these types at the regionals. I am one of the few pilot that has no desire to go to a regional airline because I would not want to work for nothing or wait 10 years to become a Capt....

See what happens everbody when you stick up for yourself? Back on the line after 5 weeks off, just in time for Summer! haha...... I wonder if he got Vacation pay?

 

[JD2003]

I nominate ZOGG for ALPA president.

DW should polish Zogg's shoes.