United Airlines and Continental Airlines Jumpseat Priority Agreement

[ATRCA]

That is simply no longer true. Look at the departure board next time and you will see you are also transporting UA pax. The times they are a changing.

Sure, they are. A temporary contract. They still have over 200 frames flying CAL brand. There's no reason to upset the status quo in favor of the competition.

 

[ATRCA]

You are comletely missing the impact and significane of Alliances, especially in the future..... which.... is.... where we are all going...

Yeah, thanks, we're all painfully aware of what National wants. It's been debated ad nauseam on our forum.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

First, ALPA did turn a blind eye. That's not really debatable. ALPA knew that a membership drive at CAL would end up allowing scabs back in.

Correct, because the law obligated ALPA to let the scabs back in.

At the time I remember hearing "the road to Dallas is through Houston." I think some thought ALPA needed CAL and a few others to woo AA.

Getting the APA to come to ALPA is a standing goal. Concerns?

As for the in-house, the IACP. Some fairly prominent scabs founded the IACP. It would have been hard to exclude your founders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Association_of_Continental_Pilots

Cross check the names with the list..........

It doesn't matter. The law is the law. Founders or not.

You can thank the pilots of XJT (at the time wholly owned CeEx) for pushing ALPA on to the property at CAL. Shortly thereafter the CAL MEC thanked the Express pilots by removing them from the MEC against their will.

So scabs started the IACP? How'd they get accomplish thier goals and get all the other strikers to go along with the IACP?

 

[ATRCA]

Correct, because the law obligated ALPA to let the scabs back in.





Getting the APA to come to ALPA is a standing goal. Concerns?



It doesn't matter. The law is the law. Founders or not.



So scabs started the IACP? How'd they get accomplish thier goals and get all the other strikers to go along with the IACP?

Are you debating who started the IACP? I can't tell?? I've given you the link.

 

[IBNAV8R]

I just want reciprocity. I'm reading how many here have no problem with offering priority to pilots based on the equipment their company flies - whether or not they are direct partner carriers. I can hear the screaming now if my company gave priority to all other Star Alliance regional pilots over the mainline pilots flying the same color airplanes as us.

Then again, I guess this is what we deserve for our $80 million down payment on UAL.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are you debating who started the IACP? I can't tell?? I've given you the link.

No. I am simply saying that ALPA had to take all scabs if they were in good standing at the inhouse. The scab issue is with the in house union allowing them to be members in goood standing... not ALPA.


If a majority of strikers and non scabs want ALPA representation, should ALPA snub them for the bragging rights that they don't take scabs?

 

[St. Nic]

ALPA is a self-serving, insider politics machine that only takes care of UAL and DAL. As a long time USAir pilot, I think it is just a matter of time before this corrupt organization implodes. Their merger policy was a joke and they let Segal take our pensions away. It doesn't surprise me ALPA will let scabs back in the union- heck, they even have a scab at the top of the heap!
USAPA is just the start- we are waiting for the UAL and DAL guys to catch on and join us with their own unions!

 

[rjacobs]

As a long time USAir pilot.
Their merger policy was a joke and they let Segal take our pensions away. It doesn't surprise me ALPA will let scabs back in the union- heck, they even have a scab at the top of the heap!

ALPA national did not let anybody take your pension away, YOUR MEC(and by extension you because you are part of the union) let your company take your pension away. If USAPA had been the bargaining unit then, the same thing would have happened.

I would also check your facts on Prater, he is for sure NOT a scab.

USAPA is a great union, great at suing people, which seems to be the only thing USAPA has done so far.

 

[ATRCA]

No. I am simply saying that ALPA had to take all scabs if they were in good standing at the inhouse. The scab issue is with the in house union allowing them to be members in goood standing... not ALPA.


If a majority of strikers and non scabs want ALPA representation, should ALPA snub them for the bragging rights that they don't take scabs?

I understand why ALPA has given the scabs a pass. I do wonder how many other unions would allow scabs (not crawlbacks, but full blown OTS scabs) back into membership? To be perfectly honest, there are scabs at CAL who contribute routinely to what CALALPA is attempting to do. There are certainly "reformed" scabs among us who do good work for the union and pilot group.

This is one of those debates that can go on without end. Should scabs be allowed back or not? I can see arguments on both sides. Like it or not, they are part of the pilot group and must be dealt with. On a personal note, I've not flown with many scabs who I would have found reason to dislike. I have also not flown with many scabs that were contributors either.......most just do their jobs and get off property when the trip is over not to be seen until their next trip.

 

[PCL_128]

You need to read Sec. 115 of the Admin manual a little more closely.

He probably doesn't even know what the Admin Manual is.

First, ALPA did turn a blind eye. That's not really debatable. ALPA knew that a membership drive at CAL would end up allowing scabs back in.

Would it have been better to shun the loyal strikers and non-scabs (the majority of the group, by the way) just so you could exclude the people you didn't want? The end result would be that the non-scabs (again, the majority) would be stuck without a functioning union that they desperately wanted, and you would have a less effective and less powerful union. How does this benefit anyone?

Their merger policy was a joke and they let Segal take our pensions away.

Merger policy was changed at the spring Executive Board meeting, but it seemed pretty good to me before. You just didn't get to rape the West pilots, so you didn't like it. Sounds to me as though the policy worked just as intended.

As for your pension, your company was hanging on by a thread. Without terminating the pension, you wouldn't have a job. Thank your MEC.

It doesn't surprise me ALPA will let scabs back in the union- heck, they even have a scab at the top of the heap!

Captain Prater was a full-term striker. Get a clue.

USAPA is just the start- we are waiting for the UAL and DAL guys to catch on and join us with their own unions!

USAPA will be bankrupt or merged into a larger union within a couple of years. The way it's operating is completely unsustainable. Are you aware that just one of your attorneys is costing you $100,000 per month? Have you totaled up what all of those assessments are costing you on a yearly basis? Have you paid any attention to the sweetheart "allowance" deals that your reps have voted in for themselves? USAPA is nothing more than a racket for the few guys that have pulled the wool over your eyes and gotten you to vote for them. Ask Mr. Cleary how much money USAPA has paid to that swindling attorney Lee Seham. You'll probably have a heart attach when you hear the number.

 

[St. Nic]

Not my fault you voted in Alpo! Independant unions are the wave of the future. Alpo sat idly by while we all lost our pensions, scope and pay!

 

[Jetjockey]

ALPA is a self-serving, insider politics machine that only takes care of UAL and DAL. As a long time USAir pilot, I think it is just a matter of time before this corrupt organization implodes. Their merger policy was a joke and they let Segal take our pensions away. It doesn't surprise me ALPA will let scabs back in the union- heck, they even have a scab at the top of the heap!
USAPA is just the start- we are waiting for the UAL and DAL guys to catch on and join us with their own unions!

You are full of fecal matter. Is that you instructor doosh? I think you just wasted another $10 of your mom's making a new screen name, TROLL!!!

 

[ATRCA]

Not my fault you voted in Alpo! Independant unions are the wave of the future. Alpo sat idly by while we all lost our pensions, scope and pay!

HHmmm, you might be on to something or you could be dead wrong?? I don't know the answer. I suspect we'll know in the next five years or so. Having been a member of the IACP I do remember a great deal of consternation regarding the unions ability to raise enough funds to negotiate and enforce a reasonable contract.

I think the next large defection from ALPA (UAL or CAL would be my top two guesses) will lead to a landslide of carriers abandoning ALPA in favor of independent unions. This is only my opinion. I firmly believe that the bottom 1/3rd of just about every major pilot group is seething with animosity regarding what age 65 has done and it's obvious culpability in creating furloughs. ALPA could sure use a victory. If they are successful in changing the duty/rest regs in favor of crews I think they will have steadied the masses for a while.

At the same time, an ancillary glance at the landscape would reveal that the most envied pilot contracts at present have been negotiated by independent unions. SWA pilots are prospering, AA pilots have managed to maintain reasonable QOL despite their companies earnings. I'm not sure what the future holds but I don't think ALPA will survive another major catastrophe. I've got plenty of issues with ALPA but I'm still convinced it's the way forward for now (at least where I sit).

 

[pipejockey]

Do the major league ball players have more in common with other majors or the farm league players within their system? I would guess other majors, their peers. Same here. Somehow we let the farm leaguers think they deserve a seat at the table. Back to the kiddie table.

Are you kidding me? I have flown regional equipment, and I have flown mainline equipment. What were all those DC9, F100, F27 etc pilots back in the day before all these puke regionals exploded? Were they to be considered minor leaguers because they didn't have the seniority to fly aircraft with greater than 100 seats. Your analogy is absurd.

 

[nonstop]

HHmmm, you might be on to something or you could be dead wrong?? I don't know the answer. I suspect we'll know in the next five years or so. Having been a member of the IACP I do remember a great deal of consternation regarding the unions ability to raise enough funds to negotiate and enforce a reasonable contract.

I think the next large defection from ALPA (UAL or CAL would be my top two guesses) will lead to a landslide of carriers abandoning ALPA in favor of independent unions. This is only my opinion. I firmly believe that the bottom 1/3rd of just about every major pilot group is seething with animosity regarding what age 65 has done and it's obvious culpability in creating furloughs. ALPA could sure use a victory. If they are successful in changing the duty/rest regs in favor of crews I think they will have steadied the masses for a while.

At the same time, an ancillary glance at the landscape would reveal that the most envied pilot contracts at present have been negotiated by independent unions. SWA pilots are prospering, AA pilots have managed to maintain reasonable QOL despite their companies earnings. I'm not sure what the future holds but I don't think ALPA will survive another major catastrophe. I've got plenty of issues with ALPA but I'm still convinced it's the way forward for now (at least where I sit).

I think you're right about ALPA, they need a victory desperately. Personally, lacking that, I can't wait to vote them off property at DAL. I'm done subsidizing the regional's bank roll, 15 years in this industry and I can barely pay the mortgage.

 

[pipejockey]

I'm done subsidizing the regional's bank roll,

What does that mean?

 

[Mr.B]

I just want reciprocity. I'm reading how many here have no problem with offering priority to pilots based on the equipment their company flies - whether or not they are direct partner carriers. I can hear the screaming now if my company gave priority to all other Star Alliance regional pilots over the mainline pilots flying the same color airplanes as us.

Then again, I guess this is what we deserve for our $80 million down payment on UAL.

80 mil HAHA!

You just chipped in for your own existence. And UAL will gladly pocket any cash they can.

Down payment. Thats rich.

 

[eaglesview]

ALPA is a self-serving, insider politics machine that only takes care of UAL and DAL. As a long time USAir pilot, I think it is just a matter of time before this corrupt organization implodes. Their merger policy was a joke and they let Segal take our pensions away. It doesn't surprise me ALPA will let scabs back in the union- heck, they even have a scab at the top of the heap!
USAPA is just the start- we are waiting for the UAL and DAL guys to catch on and join us with their own unions!

Please explain to me how ALPA "takes care of UAL. Are you kidding me, have you looked at our working conditions over hear? You are correct about ALPA gatting ready to implode. They will become the union of the RJ. I look forward to the opportunity to vote them out of here.

I personally would like to see us join up with AA, US, SW, DL ect and form a seperate union from ALPA.

 

[ATRCA]

Please explain to me how ALPA "takes care of UAL. Are you kidding me, have you looked at our working conditions over hear? You are correct about ALPA gatting ready to implode. They will become the union of the RJ. I look forward to the opportunity to vote them out of here.

I personally would like to see us join up with AA, US, SW, DL ect and form a seperate union from ALPA.

I think we are all (UAL,CAL,DAL) one major defection away from seeing ALPA largely dismantled. When you speak to ALPA Nat guys they dismiss the entire idea but I wonder how often they've listened to the sentiment of the average line crew. It's not good, not good at all.

 

[Bako Cap]

Please show me where this was initated by the UAL MEC.

Did you not read the first post that started this thread?

"The UALMEC has directed your Jumpseat Committee to seek an agreement with the Continental Jumpseat Committee whereby each carrier would grant a higher jumpseat boarding priority to each group of pilots. Your Jumpseat committee has obtained this agreement and will become effective on October 28,2009. "