United Airlines and Continental Airlines Jumpseat Priority Agreement

[IBNAV8R]

It is sad when it can be readily and quickly remedied. But it has no immediate benefit for established mainline pilots, thus the union will not take any interest in it. So they would rather concern themselves with screwing rj pilots out of JS privileges. The same rj pilots who will perennially be rj pilots because these same mainline pilots won't do anything to get everybody on one list, thereby creating a career path for all.

Sad, but every time this crap comes up, it is when these exact mainline pilots are threatened with losing THEIR priority are things then rectified. Of course, they can't possibly make the necessary corrections in just a month or two, so we have to make up some BS work-around - in spite of the fact that priorities were very easily F'd up overnight.

Also, not every flight is under a CPA. Many of the routes at my company are "at-risk" - meaning partners don't own squat. What city are "YOU" commuting from?

 

[Mr.B]

Doesn't the UAL MEC have anything better to do than F with jumpseat priorities? I donno, maybe like getting furloughs back on property or maybe getting back ANYTHING that was lost over the last 8 years..... Man does the UAL MEC suck.

Please show me where this was initated by the UAL MEC.

 

[eaglesview]

You need to read Sec. 115 of the Admin manual a little more closely.

OK Let me know how that works out for you, controlling your jumpseat. For example you bump off a company pilot to stick an offline guy on or better yet sisnce YOU are in control of YOUR jumpseat let me know how bumping Mr FAA off to stick your buddy on works out for you.

 

[Mr.B]

It is sad when it can be readily and quickly remedied. But it has no immediate benefit for established mainline pilots, thus the union will not take any interest in it. So they would rather concern themselves with screwing rj pilots out of JS privileges. The same rj pilots who will perennially be rj pilots because these same mainline pilots won't do anything to get everybody on one list, thereby creating a career path for all.

Are how would you "merge" these lists?

I'm furloughed and express flying increases. Enjoy that RJ.

 

[Mr.B]

Almost 25% of CAL pilots now come from CoEx/XJT and we all think this new arrangement is complete horse $hite!! I see no reason to alter our long standing JS agreement with the pilots of a company that operates over 1000 flights at day on behalf of the CAL brand. This has nothing to do with UAL pilots but frankly, UAL is a CAL competitor and it's crews deserve no special standing within our pass/js agreements.

I don't think this issue is settled. I expect the XJT MEC to protest and I also expect some internal CAL protests from former XJT pilots and those who would like to know how or why our MEC changed and important agreement without conference or communication with the membership. If the 4 pages of heated discussion on Calforums is any indication, this issue is far from over.

UAL might be a competitor but by pulling your head out of the sand, you will see a slow, steady progression towars a full blown merger. This is just another step.

I would bet the majority of the CAL pilots, regardless of where they flew before, welcome this change for it moves them up on the UAL JS prioity list by a substantial amount.

It's the one reason I personally won't commute.

 

[ATRCA]

UAL might be a competitor but by pulling your head out of the sand, you will see a slow, steady progression towars a full blown merger. This is just another step.

I would bet the majority of the CAL pilots, regardless of where they flew before, welcome this change for it moves them up on the UAL JS prioity list by a substantial amount.

It's the one reason I personally won't commute.

I don't care if the two management teams are in a full sprint toward a merger. UAL and it's crews are not part of CAL in any meaningful way. UAL is no different or better than AA, SWA, or any other CAL competitor. Giving their pilots special access is not only unjustified but it should not have been done without due process to our pilot group.

I understand that you guys are begging, pleading, praying for a merger, (bailout, gift, miracle) but until that happens UAL and CAL are nothing more than competitor airlines that should be hoping for the other to fail. That's the way business unfortunately works in this country. Every day, Tilton should wake up and try to figure out how he can put CAL out of business. Every day he should be trying to figure out how to grow the UAL brand but he's not doing that, has never done that and is instead looking to enrich himself and then pull the pin. I would be frustrated too if I were in your shoes. Our mgt is almost as bad. They're complete losers too but the best of the worst is all we've got.

Take a quick look around. How many successful mergers have you witnessed? None is the answer. How desperate must one be to be hoping for something that has a proven track record of failure? You know a merger will be a disaster, you know it will lead to MASSIVE downsizing and prolonged financial losses yet you yearn for it anyway. That's unfortunate.

Until it happens, CAL feeder airlines should have JS priority over competitors, that's industry standard and the way it already works at UAL. Why are you entitled to a special deal? You aren't.

 

[pipejockey]

Sad, but every time this crap comes up, it is when these exact mainline pilots are threatened with losing THEIR priority are things then rectified. Of course, they can't possibly make the necessary corrections in just a month or two, so we have to make up some BS work-around - in spite of the fact that priorities were very easily F'd up overnight.

Also, not every flight is under a CPA. Many of the routes at my company are "at-risk" - meaning partners don't own squat. What city are "YOU" commuting from?

I don't quite understand the exact point of you post. I am not sure if you agree or disagree with me. Anyway, why do you want to know where I commute from?

 

[pipejockey]

Are how would you "merge" these lists?

I'm furloughed and express flying increases. Enjoy that RJ.

Again, another person who misunderstands my posts. Are pilots really this dumb? You tell me to enjoy an RJ? I despise the regional industry. For the gazzilionth time!!! And I am sure I will keep having to say it. Did you not read my earlier post where I wished the regional industry a quick death. I am merely speaking out in support of fixing this whole mainline against regional non sense which is no good for any of us except mgmt. I also explained in an earlier post how the merging of lists could be started. To begin with, keeping every pilot currently flying an rj, locked in an rj until that time every furloughed mainline pilot is back on property. Or offering furloughed mainline pilots a CA seat at the regional as they become available. Would it be appropriate to furlough 1900 Eagle pilots to bring back furloghed mainline guys or 1100 UA express pilots to bring back every UA pilot? Of course not. But are we not a clever people? I'm sure we can figure something out that benefits the majority. We can't satisfy everybody and those that try will surely fail.

 

[eaglesview]

I don't care if the two management teams are in a full sprint toward a merger. UAL and it's crews are not part of CAL in any meaningful way. UAL is no different or better than AA, SWA, or any other CAL competitor. Giving their pilots special access is not only unjustified but it should not have been done without due process to our pilot group.

I understand that you guys are begging, pleading, praying for a merger, (bailout, gift, miracle) but until that happens UAL and CAL are nothing more than competitor airlines that should be hoping for the other to fail. That's the way business unfortunately works in this country. Every day, Tilton should wake up and try to figure out how he can put CAL out of business. Every day he should be trying to figure out how to grow the UAL brand but he's not doing that, has never done that and is instead looking to enrich himself and then pull the pin. I would be frustrated too if I were in your shoes. Our mgt is almost as bad. They're complete losers too but the best of the worst is all we've got.

Take a quick look around. How many successful mergers have you witnessed? None is the answer. How desperate must one be to be hoping for something that has a proven track record of failure? You know a merger will be a disaster, you know it will lead to MASSIVE downsizing and prolonged financial losses yet you yearn for it anyway. That's unfortunate.

Until it happens, CAL feeder airlines should have JS priority over competitors, that's industry standard and the way it already works at UAL. Why are you entitled to a special deal? You aren't.

This is completely incorrect. I fly for UAL and am now flying CO code share flights constantly and that will only grow. Also the CO pilots are flying UA code share flights which means they are generating revenue for us and we are generating revenue for them. As a result if I am to choose who I would prefer to give a jumpseat ride to I will choose the CO pilot over the RJ pilot everytime.

If I give a skywest guy a ride, which I do all the time, chances are that pilot is flying for DL that day. So I have absolutley no heart burn with this at all

Also I commute from an airport mostly served by United contracters. (RJ"S) If the pilots start some action, I really don't give a hoot, I'll still be happy to give the CO pilot priority.

 

[chppr5]

I don't care if the two management teams are in a full sprint toward a merger. UAL and it's crews are not part of CAL in any meaningful way. UAL is no different or better than AA, SWA, or any other CAL competitor. Giving their pilots special access is not only unjustified but it should not have been done without due process to our pilot group.

I understand that you guys are begging, pleading, praying for a merger, (bailout, gift, miracle) but until that happens UAL and CAL are nothing more than competitor airlines that should be hoping for the other to fail. That's the way business unfortunately works in this country. Every day, Tilton should wake up and try to figure out how he can put CAL out of business. Every day he should be trying to figure out how to grow the UAL brand but he's not doing that, has never done that and is instead looking to enrich himself and then pull the pin. I would be frustrated too if I were in your shoes. Our mgt is almost as bad. They're complete losers too but the best of the worst is all we've got.

Take a quick look around. How many successful mergers have you witnessed? None is the answer. How desperate must one be to be hoping for something that has a proven track record of failure? You know a merger will be a disaster, you know it will lead to MASSIVE downsizing and prolonged financial losses yet you yearn for it anyway. That's unfortunate.

Until it happens, CAL feeder airlines should have JS priority over competitors, that's industry standard and the way it already works at UAL. Why are you entitled to a special deal? You aren't.

Believe me, we are NOT begging, pleading, praying for a merger with CAL. We ARE begging, pleading, praying for new management. You guys have been a preferential airline for what, the last eight years out of how many years of existence? Don't beat your chest too hard. Things change real quick in this industry.

 

[ATRCA]

Believe me, we are NOT begging, pleading, praying for a merger with CAL. We ARE begging, pleading, praying for new management. You guys have been a preferential airline for what, the last eight years out of how many years of existence? Don't beat your chest too hard. Things change real quick in this industry.

I hope you're right. I hope you guys get fantastic new management that turns the company around and decides it want's to remain a stand alone company and prosper. Nothing would make us happier. Honestly, at this point I hope UAL does a 180 and decides CAL is too risky to partner with.

Absent a BK filing, I fail to see why anyone in this industry would want a merger knowing full well they typically end poorly.

As for chest pumping, like I said, having the best of the worst is far from awe inspiring. I have no confidence in CAL mgt, ZERO! I have even less confidence in CAL/UAL merged debt and aircraft/flying overlap. A company with 25B in debt it cannot service isn't my idea of a turnaround plan.

 

[St. Nic]

All of this jumpseat debate sure is interesting. UAL is peering down the abyss and United pilots think this "little financial problem" is just a simple matter of changing management. Here's a news flash- UAL is in serious, serious trouble. But keep debating all you want about the merits of Skywest jumpseaters.

 

[rjacobs]

Also the CO pilots are flying UA code share flights which means they are generating revenue for us and we are generating revenue for them. As a result if I am to choose who I would prefer to give a jumpseat ride to I will choose the CO pilot over the RJ pilot everytime.

We(XJT) fly all our revenue(currently) for CAL(and by code-share UAL) so in a round about way we are doing the same as that CAL pilot. So with that said, would you still prefer to give a CAL guy a ride over an XJT guy or would we both be about the same priority in your mind?

 

[ATRCA]

This is completely incorrect. I fly for UAL and am now flying CO code share flights constantly and that will only grow. Also the CO pilots are flying UA code share flights which means they are generating revenue for us and we are generating revenue for them. As a result if I am to choose who I would prefer to give a jumpseat ride to I will choose the CO pilot over the RJ pilot everytime.

If I give a skywest guy a ride, which I do all the time, chances are that pilot is flying for DL that day. So I have absolutley no heart burn with this at all

Also I commute from an airport mostly served by United contracters. (RJ"S) If the pilots start some action, I really don't give a hoot, I'll still be happy to give the CO pilot priority.

I just don't see it this way at all. You and I work for companies that would prosper extremely if the other were to fail tonight and not exist tomorrow. The fact that our companies have entered into an extremely large alliance that includes many different carriers does not change the economic facts of their existence. CAL and UAL do share interests. They compete. CAL and XJT do not compete. XJT exist solely to transport CAL pax. UAL does not. XJT pilots have for decades enjoyed pass travel bennies and JS priorities that reflect their contribution to the CAL system.

When CAL was part of SkyTeam, no SkyTeam partner carrier pilots received preferential JS rights above those of our regional feeders nor did we have priority on other carriers. That's fair and it reflects the nature of the relationship.

Like I've said previously, I hope that UAL and CAL remain viable stand alone airlines. Alliances aside, the pilots that fly CAL pax under the CAL brand (XJT predominantly) have for decades been given a single perk (and many not so) in recognition of what they contribute to the brand and that should not be taken from them and arbitrarily assigned to pilots from a competitor airline. This has little to do with UAL. Had the same thing taken place during our years in SkyTeam (ie DAL) I would feel exactly the same.

 

[eaglesview]

I will follow the protocol set and happily give the main line guy/gal priority.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Continental scabs have union cards. ALPA in an effort to increase revenue turned a blind eye to any past line crossers and Knighted them "beneficial' to the cause....

Not true......

By law ALPA has to take all members in good standing when ALPA took over from the in house union.....


The problem is the in house union. Why did they allow the scabs to be members in good standing?

 

[eaglesview]

I just don't see it this way at all. You and I work for companies that would prosper extremely if the other were to fail tonight and not exist tomorrow. The fact that our companies have entered into an extremely large alliance that includes many different carriers does not change the economic facts of their existence. CAL and UAL do share interests. They compete. CAL and XJT do not compete. XJT exist solely to transport CAL pax. UAL does not. XJT pilots have for decades enjoyed pass travel bennies and JS priorities that reflect their contribution to the CAL system.

That is simply no longer true. Look at the departure board next time and you will see you are also transporting UA pax. The times they are a changing.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't care if the two management teams are in a full sprint toward a merger. UAL and it's crews are not part of CAL in any meaningful way. UAL is no different or better than AA, SWA, or any other CAL competitor. Giving their pilots special access is not only unjustified but it should not have been done without due process to our pilot group.

I understand that you guys are begging, pleading, praying for a merger, (bailout, gift, miracle) but until that happens UAL and CAL are nothing more than competitor airlines that should be hoping for the other to fail. That's the way business unfortunately works in this country. Every day, Tilton should wake up and try to figure out how he can put CAL out of business. Every day he should be trying to figure out how to grow the UAL brand but he's not doing that, has never done that and is instead looking to enrich himself and then pull the pin. I would be frustrated too if I were in your shoes. Our mgt is almost as bad. They're complete losers too but the best of the worst is all we've got.

Take a quick look around. How many successful mergers have you witnessed? None is the answer. How desperate must one be to be hoping for something that has a proven track record of failure? You know a merger will be a disaster, you know it will lead to MASSIVE downsizing and prolonged financial losses yet you yearn for it anyway. That's unfortunate.

Until it happens, CAL feeder airlines should have JS priority over competitors, that's industry standard and the way it already works at UAL. Why are you entitled to a special deal? You aren't.

You are comletely missing the impact and significane of Alliances, especially in the future..... which.... is.... where we are all going...

 

[ATRCA]

Not true......

By law ALPA has to take all members in good standing when ALPA took over from the in house union.....


The problem is the in house union. Why did they allow the scabs to be members in good standing?

First, ALPA did turn a blind eye. That's not really debatable. ALPA knew that a membership drive at CAL would end up allowing scabs back in. At the time I remember hearing "the road to Dallas is through Houston." I think some thought ALPA needed CAL and a few others to woo AA.

As for the in-house, the IACP. Some fairly prominent scabs founded the IACP. It would have been hard to exclude your founders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Association_of_Continental_Pilots

Cross check the names with the list..........

You can thank the pilots of XJT (at the time wholly owned CeEx) for pushing ALPA on to the property at CAL. Shortly thereafter the CAL MEC thanked the Express pilots by removing them from the MEC against their will.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I don't see the problem. This is the way it always should have been. For that matter all major pilots should be the same priority with a first come first serve and then affiliated regionals then non. Why is this even an issue? Do the major league ball players have more in common with other majors or the farm league players within their system? I would guess other majors, their peers. Same here. Somehow we let the farm leaguers think they deserve a seat at the table. Back to the kiddie table.