UAX De-ice Brake Drop Issue - Chicago

[ATR Pirate]

Am I the only one outraged by how ridiculous it is that we don't get paid during the deice procedures at the gate? With the door closed, full of passengers? Do United Airlines pilots, or other UAX carriars have to follow the same procedures as SKYW? It has been explained to me that due to "contractual language" we aren't able to drop the brake in the CRJ and start getting paid. I am responsible for my aircraft and passengers if anything happens during this time, why no pay me? Its bad enough we don't get paid for the 15 mins before or after a flight when we work the hardest...but this is an insult.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

So drop the brake and get on the clock then.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

It has been explained to me that due to "contractual language" we aren't able to drop the brake in the CRJ and start getting paid.

"Contractual Language", between SKW and UAL? Or "Contractual Language" between the pilots and management?

 

[vtech]

So drop the brake and get on the clock then.

EXACTLY!

It's your brake. Drop it. It's how you and your crew get paid.

 

[ATR Pirate]

yeah well when i drop my brake and get audited...you get in trouble...

Yeah contractual language between SKYW and UA..They don't want us to drop the brake until the aircraft is ready for movement. I usually ignore that in order to get the on time departure..and since our flights are always over-blocked. The morons who wait don't cost the company another penny, we just lose an on time departure when we drop the brake 1 minute late, and still arrive 20 minutes early and under block..retards...

 

[vtech]

Has anybody EVER been called in because they dropped the brake before they were ready to push?

Answer: NO

Not your problem. Drop the brake. Get paid.

 

[Snapperhead]

So if you drop the brake at scheduled departure time, then get de-iced...you get audited/or get in trouble? I'm not sure I follow.
If you are on time, what is the time you call out at (since no ACARS), scheduled departure time or when you actually release the brake after getting de-iced?

 

[crxpilot]

No kidding, drop the brake. Better yet, pop the ACARS circuit breaker if you cant get around it another way.

 

[vtech]

Don't worry about any of this stuff.

WHEN THE DOOR CLOSES, DROP THE BRAKE. END OF DISCUSSION.

 

[ATR Pirate]

we can be closed up, ready to push, but we, by the rules, are not allowed to drop the break until AFTER de-ice..we can't even get the on time departure, per the rules, in the winter time if we have to deice. I do know people who have been called in on it, but no one who has really got in trouble. What are they going to do, fire me for being on time? United is such a crap hole operation, i'm ashamed to say i have to work for it. But seriously, we are not supposed to drop the break until everything is done, including deice, and we are ready to taxi. That can leave us sitting in the airplane, full of peeps, for an hour or more waiting on the deice truck in Chicago. The deice teams have done a much better job in recent years, but it is still INSANE to think that we can't get paid for this time we are in command, and responsible.

 

[vtech]

I do know people who have been called in on it, but no one who has really got in trouble.

There ya go.

WHEN THE DOOR CLOSES, DROP THE BRAKE.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

Take solace in your $1.65 per hr pay during deice.

 

[sweptback]

Tell your union to take up the issue with management.

 

[ATR Pirate]

its not a management-union problem...its a United Airlines problem

 

[hou757]

its not a management-union problem...its a United Airlines problem

Your airline pays your salary. It's an airline-union (if you have one) issue. Demand to be payed!!

 

[OCP]

So when you are in UAL colors and fly into Toronto and have to taxi the A/C to get deiced how do they decide how you get paid?

 

[Redtailer]

Man you guys are getting robbed.... Why not tie the ACARS to the WOW switch while you are at it. The other guys are right. It's between the company and your union. What, no union? You are so screwed...

I have never heard of not getting paid during De-Ice. EVER.

 

[samballs]

we can be closed up, ready to push, but we, by the rules, are not allowed to drop the break until AFTER de-ice..we can't even get the on time departure, per the rules, in the winter time if we have to deice. I do know people who have been called in on it, but no one who has really got in trouble. What are they going to do, fire me for being on time? United is such a crap hole operation, i'm ashamed to say i have to work for it. But seriously, we are not supposed to drop the break until everything is done, including deice, and we are ready to taxi. That can leave us sitting in the airplane, full of peeps, for an hour or more waiting on the deice truck in Chicago. The deice teams have done a much better job in recent years, but it is still INSANE to think that we can't get paid for this time we are in command, and responsible.

You remind me of the guy i'm flying with right now, no common sense on knows what the book says

 

[vtech]

Tell your union to take up the issue with management.

What issue?

DOOR CLOSED, DROP THE BRAKE!

 

[vtech]

Your airline pays your salary. It's an airline-union (if you have one) issue. Demand to be payed!!

You don't have to "demand" to be payed.

DOOR CLOSED, DROP THE BRAKE.

You get paid when you do that. You don't have to "demand" anything.

 

[hou757]

You don't have to "demand" to be payed.

DOOR CLOSED, DROP THE BRAKE.

You get paid when you do that. You don't have to "demand" anything.

Demand to get this fixed!!

 

[vtech]

This isn't hard. If the door is closed and you drop the brake, there's nothing to fix. You're getting paid as you should.

 

[Aerosurfer]

You remind me of the guy i'm flying with right now, no common sense on knows what the book says

oh c'mon now dont leave us hanging........ Deets

 

[OARfan]

Man you guys are getting robbed.... Why not tie the ACARS to the WOW switch while you are at it. The other guys are right. It's between the company and your union. What, no union? You are so screwed...

I have never heard of not getting paid during De-Ice. EVER.

Yeah you have. At Mesa you get paid Scheduled block time no matter what. Same at Horizon. So you're not getting paid to get deiced. Mesa sucks

 

[say again]

Drop the brake. You stated no one gets in trouble for it, so what's the problem?

 

[chqflyer]

The geniouses at Yonited decreed that if there is more than a one minute difference between the time the brake is released and the time you push, you start getting paid based on the time you push. Been dinged a couple times on this both in ORD and IAD. F*****g bean counters.

 

[vtech]

chqflyer,

"Yonited" doesn't have a thing to do with how a Skywest pilot gets paid. It's all about door closed and brake released. If those two things happen the block time starts for pay. Not sure how it is where you work.

 

[chqflyer]

We get paid based on ACARS time as well. The ramp controllers keep a log of when we actually push and either they or someone else up the chain of command has the authority to change your OUT time. Let's say you drop the brake right at scheduled departure time but don't push for ten minutes due to traffic behind you. Your OUT time will be adjusted by ten minutes. It's called the ERB. Early brake release. Just seems downright stupid.

 

[vtech]

chqflyer,

That's not something that has happened at Skywest as far as I know. If it does, the feds need to be involved. Someone is goofing with your block time and that's not right. The Department of Labor refers to it as "working off the clock." That's not permitted. Could be downright illegal.

 

[chqflyer]

It is downright fishy, and I am keeping track of instances where I have seen it. We supposedly have folks higher up the foodchain investigating, so we'll see. I agree that this does seem like fudging of the numbers, but it is based on a direct edict from United. Now that I think about it, I wish I cold post the official memo on the matter but the company is now very hush, hush secret squirl about memos these days. Every memo has a little warning atatched to it reminding you that you will be terminated if you diseminate the information in the memo. I'd better shut my trap, the black helicopters are hovering.