UAL Liquidation?

[amlplt]

Age

The Goverment raises the retirement age Just when I am in new hire class.(12/07) Now I got furloughed from Unted last year, after working for ASA for 12 years. There was less furloughs then over age 60 guys last year. Now trying to get an ATC job they say I am too Old. If that is not age discrimination, I don't know what is!

 

[waveflyer]

this is what the boomer generation doesn't get- they honestly think that our generation has had the same opportunities as they had and we're just whining....

 

[Dumb Pilot]

this is what the boomer generation doesn't get- they honestly think that our generation has had the same opportunities as they had and we're just whining....

There has never been another time in this industry when becoming a pilot was so easy, now you have individuals that go to a PFT school and by the time they have barely ATP minimums they are in command of a regional jet. Stop the whining and get off my lawn:laugh:

 

[Dubya]

Meanwhile......

.....back at The UA Ranch....Gordon Bethune has been spotted in Chicago this winter. My inside source says he has an office at UA HQ.

I wonder if the CAL thing really is dead in the water?

W

 

[Dan Roman]

this is what the boomer generation doesn't get- they honestly think that our generation has had the same opportunities as they had and we're just whining....

I don't get your perception.
In the 1960's and 1970's, to get on with an airline you had to be hired BEFORE you were 32, had to be male and if you weren't caucasion, you weren't eliminated but you did have a strike against you.
At the time, airlines would go years without hiring. You could be highly qualified and pass age 32 and you had NO chance at being an airline pilot, period.
A really good General Aviation job prior to getting on with an airline would typically be right seat in a Twin Otter or Be-99. Upgrades even at that level could take years. Once hired almost everyone did go through a furlough and it usually lasted for years. New hires were treated like second class citizens. Probation meant you could EASILY get fired for any reason. First year pay was terrible.
Once you finally did get seniority at a major airline, the job was better than it is now, but the descrepency between the junior and senior positions is far less now than it was. In the 1940's and 1950's the co-pilot (even if he was a former B-17 Captain or p-51 ace) was considered and treated as a lowly apprentice. The boomer generation changed all that.

There are way more opportunities for younger pilots now than there ever was. There is way less descrimination now and junior pilots are accorded way more respect and equality than at any other time in aviation history thanks to the "boomer" generation.
Furloughed pilots never were considered worthy untill the "boomer" generation came along and started paying for medical coverage to help furloughed pilots and fought to protect them as strongly as anyone else on the seniority list.
I could gone on and on.
Every Generation has made it's contributions. None of them are perfect.
Oh, and you can thank the "Boomer" Generation for getting us out of the 1950's.

 

[Dan Roman]

Oh, and that was a "boomer" that did a pretty good job in New York. It's boomers like him (ALPA safety committee work, etc.) that have helped build so much of what many of us take for granite.

 

[Mamma]

Oh, and that was a "boomer" that did a pretty good job in New York. It's boomers like him (ALPA safety committee work, etc.) that have helped build so much of what many of us take for granite.

I thought said boomer was in the safety field not granite counter-top one. I am getting new granite counter-tops....any suggestions?

 

[Abernathy]

Oh, and that was a "boomer" that did a pretty good job in New York. It's boomers like him (ALPA safety committee work, etc.) that have helped build so much of what many of us take for granite.

"Take for granted." Granite is a type of igneous rock.

 

[Dan Roman]

"Take for granted." Granite is a type of igneous rock.

Right you are, that's what you get when you post after two glasses of wine!

 

[Bake]

Just two glasses of wine??? what a cheap date, puss.

 

[Be 23]

Granite is a type of igneous rock.

And here I spent my whole life thinking it was metamorphic. Log on to FI to learn something new.

 

[McNugget]

The Goverment raises the retirement age Just when I am in new hire class.(12/07) Now I got furloughed from Unted last year, after working for ASA for 12 years. There was less furloughs then over age 60 guys last year. Now trying to get an ATC job they say I am too Old. If that is not age discrimination, I don't know what is!

Discrimination! Call Jesse and Al! Call Obama! It's all DA MAN's fault, He out to getcha!

 

[Yuppyguppy]

.....back at The UA Ranch....Gordon Bethune has been spotted in Chicago this winter. My inside source says he has an office at UA HQ.

I wonder if the CAL thing really is dead in the water?

W

ahh.....haven't heard that one at all.

 

[amlplt]

Discrimination! Call Jesse and Al! Call Obama! It's all DA MAN's fault, He out to getcha!

Can't I am white!!!!

 

[waveflyer]

I don't get your perception.
In the 1960's and 1970's, to get on with an airline you had to be hired BEFORE you were 32, had to be male and if you weren't caucasion, you weren't eliminated but you did have a strike against you.
At the time, airlines would go years without hiring. You could be highly qualified and pass age 32 and you had NO chance at being an airline pilot, period.
A really good General Aviation job prior to getting on with an airline would typically be right seat in a Twin Otter or Be-99. Upgrades even at that level could take years. Once hired almost everyone did go through a furlough and it usually lasted for years. New hires were treated like second class citizens. Probation meant you could EASILY get fired for any reason. First year pay was terrible.
Once you finally did get seniority at a major airline, the job was better than it is now, but the descrepency between the junior and senior positions is far less now than it was. In the 1940's and 1950's the co-pilot (even if he was a former B-17 Captain or p-51 ace) was considered and treated as a lowly apprentice. The boomer generation changed all that.

There are way more opportunities for younger pilots now than there ever was. There is way less descrimination now and junior pilots are accorded way more respect and equality than at any other time in aviation history thanks to the "boomer" generation.
Furloughed pilots never were considered worthy untill the "boomer" generation came along and started paying for medical coverage to help furloughed pilots and fought to protect them as strongly as anyone else on the seniority list.
I could gone on and on.
Every Generation has made it's contributions. None of them are perfect.
Oh, and you can thank the "Boomer" Generation for getting us out of the 1950's.

And i don't get your perception. You marginalize it however you like- but i can slice through 95% of the above arguments if i thought doing so wouldn't insult the intelligence of most who are reading this. (Consult the following link to see why: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ )

The outsourcing has been awful for ALL of us. And your arguments for the existence of 'regionals' are tired. You sold out to save your own in a de-regulated airline world. It's that simple- funny how the 'right' believes in absolutes- but can't take responsibility for this.

Sully was the captain-He did his job- and did it well. But don't make the FO in the USAirways crash to be an invalid. I'm proud of Sully- but then again i'm proud of every professional pilot- And that's the difference - boomers are convinced of their own superiority- using my pride in their good work as proof, while giving little respect towards the career or the next generation they leave behind.

 

[b19]

Mr. Merchant a national seniority list is a good idea, I just can't see how it would ever happen. But as an alternative, think Europe with the JAA ATP. Pilots have to take something like 14 exams from a 16,000 question test bank for their ATP. This severely reduces the pilot pool and that shortage makes qualified people much more valuable.

If ALPA lobbied for the same testing as the JAA for all future ATP's, with those that already have an ATP and a couple thousand PIC, grandfathered in. It would make us as pilots a lot more valuable in the future, in this horribly uncertain industry.

It's not a national seniority list but it might make starting over a little less painful if the pilot supply is restricted, and all in the name of safety.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Wrong, Look what is happening in Europe. People are buying jobs with 300 hours and a wad of cash. The multicrew pilot license is being brought in to allow people with even less experience fly big airplanes.

 

[b19]

I agree that the multicrew is a sham, they did that to get away from their own ATP requirements. I was talking about an extremely difficult ATP written exam, not an easy multicrew/commercial ticket, that would have the long term effect of shrinking the pilot pool.

Have you looked at what it takes to convert your license to a JAA ATP.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree that the multicrew is a sham, they did that to get away from their own ATP requirements. I was talking about an extremely difficult ATP written exam, not an easy multicrew/commercial ticket, that would have the long term effect of shrinking the pilot pool.

Have you looked at what it takes to convert your license to a JAA ATP.

Yes, and it took me three and a half years to take all the tests and go take the practicals. Well worth it, but a true pain in the butt.

 

[glasspilot1]

>> At the time, airlines would go years without hiring. You could be highly qualified and pass age 32 and you had NO chance at being an airline pilot, period. <<

I have a good friend who got burned by that very "rule"! It's hard to believe companies could get away with that back then.

My friend John grew up in NC and all he ever wanted to do was fly for Piedmont. They weren't hiring and he waited. He knew a lot of people there, had the inside info! Finally he interviews, gets hired and the guy asks at the end: "Oh, how old are you?" "I just turned 32". "Oh, I'm sorry, we can't make an exception for you."