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UAL issuing orders to fly at will!

100/hour/5y

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Nov 1, 2002
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188
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lots
We have been watching the implementation, or lack thereof, of our contract. I have noted a few things that scare the hell out of me when I look at the last eight years I have at this place.

Are there only a few of us on this forum who realize what is happening here?.......the precedent that is being set by our company and ALLOWED by our Union?

1. On March 1st (three days ago), Jayson Baron sent out a blast mail which in part stated: "In addition, unless all non-rest seats on the aircraft are full, the adjacent seat will also be blocked. This means the entire aircraft must be full, not just Business First, before this additional seat is assigned to a non-revenue or revenue passenger. Where the problem may come in is that management, despite knowing they would be bound by this provision since mid-December, chose not to block the seats until February 27th. This will probably lead to large scale reseating and the potential for numerous errors and conflict."

The very next day, captain Bowers, the EWR CP put out a blast mail that stated that Jayson's ML was not a fact and "This is not the company’s opinion of this section of the contract." This was written in bold. Captain Bowers also stated "I wanted all of you to know what management’s opinion of this section is and what I expect each of you to do if faced with this situation. I do not want crews taking delays for contractual disputes." That was two days ago.

Today, after a full day when our FTFPL folks should have been in the office, there is still no Union Blastmail addressing this confrontational issue......nothing. Our pilots were told by Jayson to:

"If an order is issued and the assignment can be completed safely, then fly it and grieve it upon return to base. When an “order to fly” is issued there is a documented paper trail and the management pilot will be held accountable. To date, management pilots have been hesitant to issue these orders."

The fact is that our management has proven since Jayson's blast mail that they are MORE than willing to issue these "orders".....in fact.....and this is the scarey thing, it seems that our company can issue these OTF things at their whim on anything they want to......without any type of fight from our Union......did anybody else anticipate SOMETHING from our Union today (or this past weekend?).......is nobody else thinking about this? Sure, we know that the company cannot issue an OTF on a safety item but name ONE other thing contained within our contract that they could not issue an "order to fly" to get their way. Today it is the rest seat, tomorrow it will be crew meals the next day it will be almost anything else in our contract that the company does not want to comply with. How about if there are NO F/C rest seats on your aircraft because a coach passenger was upgraded? Before, we would simply state "we are not moving the aircraft until the '02 contract is complied with".....I have done this a couple of times myself and miraculously, the required rest seat appeared. TODAY......I would be issued an OTF over ACARS and I would have to fly the flight and then file a grievance on my own time when I got back.......that is what Jayson said to do: "If an order is issued and the assignment can be completed safely, then fly it and grieve it upon return to base." Really? Is this how our Union defends the contract they sold to us?

This is insane!

We not only have a substandard contract in many ways, but, our Union has given the company the key to violate it at any time......a pilot will receive an OTF and then AFTER the trip, on his OWN damned time.....he can grieve it. This precedent will inundate the Union with hundreds of grievances which will be impossible to address but.....if you are lucky enough to have your grievance float to the top at some point, you GET to commute to IAH on your day off and at your own expense to address your grievance.

Eventually, THIS pilot group will give up, quit filing grievances and yes, don't be surprised if you see the OTF on your Dispatch Release once this pilot group has been worn down (which will take about three days).......eventually, JP and pals will hold a rally in protest or something.

I will say it......there is no doubt in my mind that JP and his pals are in cahoots with the company on every aspect of this contract. Their reward is NOT to go to management......their reward is to stay right where they are in their plush Union jobs with the eloquent QOL they live. They are happy as peach pie.....many of them are not even qualified to fly anymore. The fact that there was nothing forthcoming from our Union today addressing the OTF situation is unconscionable......if the OTF is allowed to continue, we might as well throw away our substandard contract folks......it is worthless.
 

Bringupthebird

Grumpy? Who-Me?
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
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Fly It and Grieve It has been the rule in the industry for at least the past 35 years, get used to it. Contractual disputes are handled through the grievance process, not in wildcat actions that lead to buybacks of that line pilot's job at everyone's expense.
 

Skank

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Nov 26, 2002
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Just logging-on in is tacit consent to losing valuable minutes of your life. I just had a vacation with no internet or cell access. Didn't miss any of it. Sorry, I just stole a few seconds from all of us...
 

Ty Webb

Hostage to Fortune
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Dec 10, 2001
Posts
6,525
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The responses you received to your post are indicative of why this is has become a j-o-b.

Too many small-minded people who are willing to give up the hard-fought work-rules and benefits. Makes you wonder where they'll stand up for themselves . . . . if ever.
 

Flopgut

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May 16, 2005
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IMHO, this is all a good thing. CAL mgt thinks this is business as usual. They have no idea how much they gave up in the management rights language of this contract. Don't do anything stupid or we might end up under an injunction. Simply file the greivance and stick with it. Each greivance we win means no more OTF on that issue. They are going to have to start running an airline and not just mining dollars out of the pilot contract soon enough.
 

greed

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Feb 13, 2005
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Just logging-on in is tacit consent to losing valuable minutes of your life. I just had a vacation with no internet or cell access. Didn't miss any of it. Sorry, I just stole a few seconds from all of us...

Hahah, I will give you 3 seconds of my life and let you know that you missed nothing. All of us complained about our messed up companies and accused everyone else for being the cause. Also someone had someone in their jumpseat that knew someone..........

Ok, you are caught up now.

Blue skies!
 

PBRstreetgang

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Mar 4, 2002
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Its simple, allow it and when your turn at bat is in play, refuse, due to fatigue, caused by the chatterbox seated next to you....fatigue is a hot button, hit them where they live and cannot counter.
Next issue?
 

jstanotherpilot

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Oct 15, 2003
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Get OTF. Try at least.

Then if the pax sitting there is a chatter box, keeps bumpimng in to you while you are trying to sleep, keeps turning the light off and on, rummages around in anyway waking you up; when it is time to go on duty and get out of the rest seat say sorry I am fatugued.

Even if one of you has to fly then hey you have to complete the flight and can't pull over to a cloud in the sky, I guess, right? So then you and the Capn write a FSAP on fatigue that you had to complete the flight illegally.

Or if the other FO just continues as you are fatigued, all three write a fatigue FSAP and get the FAA in on it.

Would that be a good thought?
 

PBRstreetgang

Registered Abuser
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Posts
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Get OTF. Try at least.

Then if the pax sitting there is a chatter box, keeps bumpimng in to you while you are trying to sleep, keeps turning the light off and on, rummages around in anyway waking you up; when it is time to go on duty and get out of the rest seat say sorry I am fatugued.

Even if one of you has to fly then hey you have to complete the flight and can't pull over to a cloud in the sky, I guess, right? So then you and the Capn write a FSAP on fatigue that you had to complete the flight illegally.

Or if the other FO just continues as you are fatigued, all three write a fatigue FSAP and get the FAA in on it.

Would that be a good thought?
Nope,
Fatigued is fatigued, taking the position when not fit for flight due to fatigue will be jumping into the fire, skipping the frying pan. If the original F/O has to stay in his seat due to your fatigue, that will be a regulatory failure due to willful contract violation, and the onus will be on the entity that violated the contract, the company. Frying the company in the court of public opinion will do the trick, but one must tread carefully and from well within the contract. Let the company violate the contract and deal with the consequences. Ground one flight at an outstation due to fatigue and the problem will solve its self.
 
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