UAL Furloughees... We're supposed to have jobs

[saabservant]

Until we lock Bruce York, and the other alpa lawyers in a closet, we will all continue to suffer c-scale conditions. They are the ones who convince the MEC's to go along with outsourcing.
More outsourcing means more express carriers, meaning more lawyers "representing" each carrier...

 

[Mr.B]

Bottom line. Legacy pilots industry wide did not give a rats a$$ about their junior pilots. Outsourced while furloughing. Creating a completely disenfranchised group that can never be paid that well. Making it possible for places like skybus and VA and Jblue and USAIr to pay so little and have a virtually unlimited supply of pilots for whom they are a step up- and full circle then putting downward pressure on everyones wages.

Nice work fellas. Gave yourself a paycut and screwed up a bunch of pilots lives in the process.

This just about sums it up. Just about every furloughed or about-to-be furloughed pilot say theywould take a job at VA or JBlue (that is if they'll hire them) to pay the bills and hopefully resurrect a career that their senior brethren sold out for them. And, they hope to help take pax away from their former carriers any way they can (ie customer service).

Some on the other hand, myself included, will re-enter the non-aviation jungle and make a few bucks the hard way. It worked with the first furlough and I can proudly say I out-earned a -400 Captain, but it was hard work!

Cheers.

 

[Shrek]

This just about sums it up. Just about every furloughed or about-to-be furloughed pilot say theywould take a job at VA or JBlue (that is if they'll hire them) to pay the bills and hopefully resurrect a career that their senior brethren sold out for them. And, they hope to help take pax away from their former carriers any way they can (ie customer service).

Some on the other hand, myself included, will re-enter the non-aviation jungle and make a few bucks the hard way. It worked with the first furlough and I can proudly say I out-earned a -400 Captain, but it was hard work!

Cheers.

Not this furloughed pilot

 

[Quiet Flight]

The problem with the whole thing is that if a person is furloughed at United they should flow to the Captains Seat at the regional.....

Uh...what? Why is that? Why should they be given a captain seat? I could understand if the regional did not have enough f/o's on property with ATP mins, but other than that I don't see it.

 

[surplus1]

Good to see you posting again!

Thanks for the thought .... it's not likely to last.

In a situation where there is a net gain in airframes and pilot hiring is taking place, allowing furloughed mainline pilots to take the CA slots would be beneficial to your group because the slots that are being created as permanent, while the furloughed pilots filling them are only temporary. When the furloughee returns to his mainline carrier, those slots are all yours. Of course, this is only beneficial if the net gain in aircraft is conditional upon accepting the furloughed pilots into the left seats (ie. J4J). If you would be getting the airplanes either way, then you're in a great bargaining position and would have no reason to accept it.

No offense intended (I know you mean well) but you remind me of a senior citizen on Medicare shouting down his Senator because he objects to "socialized medicine" and wants no part of "government run programs". Just don't ask than objector to turn in his Medicare or Social Security card.

The problem with what you say is that you and others who agree with you actually believe what you're saying. You've bought into management's game hook, line and sinker .... and so did our union.

Airframes are acquired and flying is subcontracted because it is beneficial to management. Their plans will be carried out regardless of what pilots agree to or do not agree to. Airframes don't go to a subcontractor because its pilots agree to give their seats to "mainline pilots" ... they go because they are needed there. By the same token they don't not go becuse mainline pilots are pouting and threatening to be unruly. If management really wants to do something they will do it ... no matter what pilots think or don't think.

J4J was and is nothing more than a system of "grand theft seniority" on the part of mainline pilots, aided and abetted by the labor union that represented both pilot groups. The young pilots at the regionals agree to it because they're naive and inexperienced - they actually believe that the mainline pilots are doing them a favor. Hog wash! The mainline pilots saw an opportunity to take advantage of them and did so. Management couldn't care less which group of pilots screws another group .... so long as they get what they want.

As a typical example of pilot greed and union complicity, the seniors at USAirways sold their juniors at Mid Atlantic down the tubes when they thought it would get them something .... they got screwed anyway. Both they and the Mid Atlantic people shafted the Piedmont and Allegheny people at the first opportunity. The people at PSA sold out their "friends" at PDT and ALG because they wanted an advantage for themselves. Management simply saw them all for what they were and took advantage of the lot.

Over at AA and EGL ... same deal. The seniors at EGL sold out the juniors at EGL for personal gain. The wiser fellows at AA took advantage of both and ALPA, who wanted back the AA pilots helped them to screw the ALPA members at EGL. When AA bought TWA, the AA pilots didn't hesitate for one second to screw their "mainline brothers" at TWA however they could. ALPA did nothing to prevent it, they just blamed it all on the senior TWA pilots (probably with accuracy ... I don't know).

The bottom line is simple: We all live in a world of greed and "ME, ME, ME"; pilots are no exception. Our "union" is not a union at all, it is an Association of people who have nothing in common other than the same profession. Each group acts exclusively in its own interests, regardless of what happens to the other groups. This isn't "new", it didn't start with 'regional carriers' and it won't end when the regional carriers are no more. I could cite you a great many examples but since you're a student of ALPA history I'm sure you already know what they are.

I don't mean to imply that ALPA is a bad thing or an evil thing, it isn't. A great many good things have come out of ALPA from which we have all benefited over the years. All in all the good outweighs the bad. But, one thing that ALPA has never been able to do successfully is eliminate or even reduce the greed of individual pilot groups, or for that matter individual pilots. Sadly, I'm afraid that's too much to ask .... it would be un-American.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, we pilots consistently manage to fight among ourselves and play into the hands of management schemes. They know how we are, they know how we behave and they are able to play us against each other like the proverbial fiddle. Know why? Because we're just like them ... a collection of mini-capitalists ... each out for himself even at the expense of the whole.

On a separate note --- it seems you've changed airlines. If I'm correct, I wish you all the best in your new company. For your sake I hope you are never 'acquired' and become the subsidiary of some other group. I sincerely hope you manage to escape the brotherly love that will surely come your way in that event.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Consider this:

http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/ChrisBeebeOpEd.pdf

 

[PCL_128]

Until we lock Bruce York, and the other alpa lawyers in a closet, we will all continue to suffer c-scale conditions. They are the ones who convince the MEC's to go along with outsourcing.
More outsourcing means more express carriers, meaning more lawyers "representing" each carrier...

Actually, more outsourcing means less revenue, which means fewer lawyers. Bruce is a top notch negotiator, and ALPA is lucky to have him. I've never once heard him advocate outsourcing.

But, one thing that ALPA has never been able to do successfully is eliminate or even reduce the greed of individual pilot groups, or for that matter individual pilots. Sadly, I'm afraid that's too much to ask .... it would be un-American.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, we pilots consistently manage to fight among ourselves and play into the hands of management schemes. They know how we are, they know how we behave and they are able to play us against each other like the proverbial fiddle. Know why? Because we're just like them ... a collection of mini-capitalists ... each out for himself even at the expense of the whole.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Consider this:

http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/ChrisBeebeOpEd.pdf

Forget the loss of dues revenue, the loss of Captain Beebe as an Officer was the greatest tragedy in the defection of the AAA pilots. Great article.

 

[Quiet Flight]

Consider this:

http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/ChrisBeebeOpEd.pdf

I cannot believe you referenced Chris Beebe. You're slippin' dude...

:beer: