UAL Decision Soon Amid Worries/Questions

[potrack]

bringing them down???

Mach 80,

Interesting comment when you said, ".....bankrupt airlines are driving pay rates down..."

according to www.airlinepilotpay.com

3rd year F/O pay scales:

Delta 737 $134
SWA 737 $89
American 737-800 $87

UAL 737/320 $80

USAir 737 $75
Frontier All F/O $72
Cont 737 $71
ATA 737 $71
Aloha 737 $70
AmWest All F/O $66
AirTran 717 $61
JetBlue 320 $61

Hmmm, looks like bankrupt UAL pay rates are still better than many companies that some people consider "The best thing since sliced bread".

It is not the bankrupt companies bringing us down, it is the guys that whore themselves out for 60 something an hour, are willing to waive FARs, deal with unsavory work rules, and have other airlines fail, just for...........the 'Love of being a pilot'

NuGuy.......I agree

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I'm with NuGuy on this one

UAL has 2.5 times the loan amount in assets or the loan wouldn't be gauranteed in the first place. It is similar to a bank having the FDIC status. The government gaurantees the money, but also has governmental controls on how the bank does business.

It's the same with the loan gaurntee. If UAL gets into trouble and doesn't make the necessary corrections, then they get shut down and the assetts are sold.

I say give them the gaurantee.

 

[WatchYourElbows]

However, one senior lawmaker believes UAL Corp.'s (OTC BB:UALAQ.OB - News) United, which is based in Elk Grove Village, Illinois, has positioned itself so well politically that approval by the Air Transportation Stabilization Board is inevitable despite the new developments and maneuvering by other airlines to derail the loan guarantee.


Read the whole article http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/040527/airlines_united_loan_1.html

 

[crashpad]

I joked to a UAL pilot on the crew bus as we passed a TED Airbus;
"Nice looking airplane,...it'd look better with an animal on the tail."
The little guy just glared at me like I was serious...what a 'mo-mo'! If these guys can't let some starch outta their shorts, they won't get sympathy when it's over-just more laughter.

 

[T-Bags]

I joked to a UAL pilot on the crew bus as we passed a TED Airbus;
"Nice looking airplane,...it'd look better with an animal on the tail."
The little guy just glared at me like I was serious...what a 'mo-mo'! If these guys can't let some starch outta their shorts, they won't get sympathy when it's over-just more laughter.

He probably didn't like some little punk a$$ who he sent packing from a UAL interview, making snide comments about his company at the same time that that snide little pr1cks company leadership is actively whinning to the government in opposition to his JOB AND LIVELYHOOD, especially since that snide little pr1cks company appears to now be losing money at a faster rate. I guess he should have then started laughing at your pay and benefits and that liberal use of purple.

 

[AnimalTale]

F9 got the loan backing sooooo why can't UAL? Looks like the allmighty Frontier LCC took a loss as well........

.

Extra300s,

You are correct, F9 did lose for the qtr (5.5million), but F9 made PROFIT for the whole year (2004)..

Second, F9 did get a loan but F9 was the first airline to repay the loan, in FULL, before its due date. Since the loan was paid in full before the due date, F9 was charged with a prepayment penalty.

Third, UAL will get the loan. It is an election year, UAL supports many jobs. It is almost a guarantee that UAL will get the loan, so politicians want to make it a game and make the public "think" that Ual is not going to get the loan.

Dont be frustrated with the LCC airlines. Although, 9/11 had something to do with Uals problems, Your management is to blame, mostly. I was once a pilot with a MAjor too.....LCC are way more efficient. I can tell you (it might be the coolade), but the LCC employees work as if they are part of a winning team. There are little or no Premaddonas at F9. Everybody here appreciates their job and knows it can be yanked out from underneath them. These are the difference, I see from my last employer.

Plus, this is the airline industry. Extra, you have enough experience to know this industry is cyclical. LCCs might be doing good now, but maybe not in the future.

I wish u luck! I can tell you, I wish the GREAT UAL will survive and prosper. With that in mind, Keep your head up and dont wish bad things on others! (this one goes out to Lequip (SP??).

Adios

 

[Extra300S]

AnimalTale,



Wow! Thanks for the post, you are right, we should all stop slamming one another, plenty of sky out there for all of us to fly in. Sorry that a few bad apples ruin in for all of us (on BOTH sides of the Legacy and LCC debate)

I do not wish bad ill on any airline. I am surviving a furlough and currently working for an LCC, I know what you mean about employee motivation, I also know about the back stabbing of pilots who just want to make themselves feel better around the cocktail party about "how they never wanted to fly 777's"

My concern is really where the WHOLE industry is heading (Kinda like a Walmart situation) I have no answers, just opinions and at LEAST I admit it.

Your comments make sense, thanks for joining in.

--Extra 300S

 

[AnimalTale]

Thanks! Have fun flying and Good Luck

 

[IB6 UB9]

AnimalTale's post is one of the more professional posts I have seen on here in a while. Well done.

 

[USMC319]

AnimalTail,

Thanks for the post. It's amazing how some pilots can forget where they came from and identify only with where they are.

We were all, at some point, non-aviators, and because of certain events whether we created them or if it was simply timing or pure luck, ended up where we are. Now on these boards we witness our peers berating each other because of the companies we work for. That is crap and I appreciate you pointing it out.

Granted, some of us have resumes that will blow your socks off and we have to share the profession with those that don't. That is the nature of the business in modern aviation, and we'll have to get used to it.

 

[SWA/FO]

United people treated "other" people like $hit for years, now some people like giving some of it back to them. Human nature.

 

[Extra300S]

UAL may have a few bad apples, just like SWA does........

I have never treated a SWA guy badly in any way, several of my friends work at SWA, in fact I still remember some of them asking for LOR's (at UAL) to get a job here.

Of course this was before 9/11

 

[AA717driver]

I wonder where the UAL guys are that walked up to a fellow squadron mate in 1992 and told him "why doesn't TWA just do the right thing and go out of business for the good of the industry?".

I'm sure they don't remember. My friend hasn't forgotten. Karma's a b!tch.TC

P.S.--The SWA guys were ALWAYS supportive of the TWA people and for that, I am eternally grateful!

 

[Mr.Aviation]

UNITED AIRLINES.....WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!!! MAY YOU REST IN PEACE!! BA-BYE!

 

[SWA/FO]

Oh, the famous "I bet you applied here argument".

I didn't say all UAL folks were a$$holes. I said people remember how they were treated and this is what is coming out.

I do remember being at a UAL wedding and being treated like an a$$ because I could not keep up with their "shop talk" since I was a lowly freight dog. I remember hearing about some of our guys not being allowed on UAL's jumpseat because "SWA was/is ruining the industry". After I was treated like I didn't have what it takes to be a UAL aviator (at several job fairs).. I knew, I did not want to work there (personal decision).

There were some people that wanted to leave SWA for UAL based on what they thought was best for them, peer pressure or what ever.. Maybe they lived in CO or something. Maybe more money would bring them more happiness, who knows? I know I am very happy where I am at. You could now argue about UAL folks asking SWA guys for rec letters, too.

So what you are seeing and hearing is simple, its "payback".

 

[Extra300S]

SWA F/O,

The reason you were treated like an A$$ is probably because it's the truth.

And the truth hurts sometimes......

 

[bpapaDC8]

A late response to Mach 80,

I can understand other airlines lobbying against the Loan Gurantee, but for individual pilots to do so is nothing more than weak di*k backstabbing. Bankruptcy has been used by carriers in the past, ie Continental.and America West. Perhaps they need to shut down.

As for the Loan Gurantee, perhaps ATA, Frontier, World, US Airways, and Aloha need to go out of business as well. After all, they applied for and received a Loan Gurantee under the same program.

Tell me how pay rates are going to move when there are THOUSANDS of pilots on the street looking for jobs. Remember the early and mid-nineties when most regionals were pay for training. See where I'm going? I stand by my previous post.

bpapa

 

[M.St.Lawrence]

Bankruptcy

Now the pilots/ fligh attendants of UAL, A/A,Delta, etc. know the feeling of pay cuts, give backs, downsizing, etc. to save their companies....much like what happened at TWA and were so demeaned for it.

 

[SMMustang]

My previous post was to call Mr. Bs bluff. If someone called out someone with the threat the other way, I woulda wrote the letter differently. Heck, I said right there to edit as you desire! A couple word changes and the whole letter's meaning is changed. This is what I'm sick of, people sitting on their backside, not doing anything, but insulting each other. I thought I'd show some iniciative and get SOMEONE to do SOMETHING. Now, if the UAL people would get off their duff, change a few words, they could have the letter they want to send. Geez!

 

[Dizel8]

The enemy within rank is ourselves!

We all know people, who were turned down at AA, DAL who is know working at UAL. Really does not make any difference in which order you put the airlines, someone who was not hired at one, got hired at another. Does that make you a better pilot, heck no, it just means you did a great song and dance show which got you hired.

Yes, there are those, that believe, because they work for X is better than those who work at Y. Totally stupid and more importantly wrong.

As far as competetive pressures and responses, those choices are made by people way above our paygrades. People who does not give a darn about you who are or what you do. To them, it is all about profits.

This is a dog eat dog world, but we, the employees, should try and act like gentlemem and not hyenas.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey extra300s,

I was just trying to give you a different point of view. So you go and call me an a$$, real nice.

I don't care about UAL. I don't know what is actually going on at UAL. I don't care if they get the money or not.

I do, however, like their new paint job - I think its sharp looking. Will the new paint job save UAL, I don't care.

 

[Extra300S]

Told you before kid,

The TRUTH Hurts.

 

[Mr.B]

"My previous post was to call Mr. Bs bluff. "

Oh it was no bluff. I figured it would expose you.

 

[stb]

Still waiting for a ...

response to "Carrer Expectations" from a UAL pilot.

The part that kills me is the employees bought UAL from Wolf and they end up with nothing.

Word has it that WOLF is kind of sickly and not doing well.
As Seinfeld says,"There's nothing wrong with that."


I do hope UAL gets the cash.

 

[BigMotorToter]

I wonder where the UAL guys are that walked up to a fellow squadron mate in 1992 and told him "why doesn't TWA just do the right thing and go out of business for the good of the industry?".

I'm sure they don't remember. My friend hasn't forgotten. Karma's a b!tch.TC

P.S.--The SWA guys were ALWAYS supportive of the TWA people and for that, I am eternally grateful!
__________________
I'll second that. Once getting off a van at the hotel in 1999, after listening to a new hire UAL pilot shoot his mouth off the whole way about how great UAL was and how come we all weren't trying to get on at UAL, he had the nerve to stop the me the Captain and all our F/A's when we started to tip the driver and say "no, no I'll get it, you guys need to save your money". My Captain who had been through 2 bankruptcies, 2 furloughs, Carl Ichan, 1 hijacking, TWA 800, etc... tells this arrogant little 23 year old, "If you don't get out of my site this second I am going to rip off your head and shi1 down your neck". The UAL Captain apologized profusely and told his co-pilot to get the hell inside the hotel and that they were going to have a little chat about his behavior. Also mentioned something about him being on probation. I saw the UAL Captain later and said he had been listening to this little SOB shoot his mouth off the whole trip, and maybe he might do something about it when they got back to ORD. Whatever that ment.

In spite of that little incident and a few others I had the displeasure of being involved in, I still hope for UAL to make it because most of the guys are good guys, and after being on the receiving end of it for so long I swore I would never do the same.

 

[nimtz]

I joked to a UAL pilot on the crew bus as we passed a TED Airbus;
"Nice looking airplane,...it'd look better with an animal on the tail."
The little guy just glared at me like I was serious...what a 'mo-mo'! If these guys can't let some starch outta their shorts, they won't get sympathy when it's over-just more laughter.

Joking in anyway about losing his job to someone who is d@mn worryed about his future livelihood is F*CKING stupid. "Hey won't it suck when you have to go to the unemployment office!" "Remember a few years ago when you thought you'd be a widebody captain?!?" "Dude I'm totally joking though!'

Bottom line is you showed absolute low class to some 'little guy' who was just trying to go to work. Fine and dandy you're job is safe, but why even make cracks towards someone who has a little bit more on his plate. So do you also get a kick out of laughing at handicapped people?

 

[NuGuy]

Joking in anyway about losing his job to someone who is d@mn worryed about his future livelihood is F*CKING stupid. "Hey won't it suck when you have to go to the unemployment office!" "Remember a few years ago when you thought you'd be a widebody captain?!?" "Dude I'm totally joking though!'

Bottom line is you showed absolute low class to some 'little guy' who was just trying to go to work. Fine and dandy you're job is safe, but why even make cracks towards someone who has a little bit more on his plate. So do you also get a kick out of laughing at handicapped people?

Man, I agree. This guy who made this crack ought to be up for the upper class twit of the year,

Best,
Nu

 

[Chocks]

What are you thinking?

I can't believe a pilot would wish for 8000 other pilots to be out of work. What would happen would be 8000 pilots, with probably more time than you, would be flooding the market looking for jobs. More supply of pilots with less supply of jobs = lower pay for everybody.

Thankfully UAL is going to pull out of this mess - they were the first ones to get costs in line. Once this whole Loan thing is over (either granted or dissapproved) the numbers are going to look better.

Grow up..

 

[crazee8]

Wow, this thread amazed me. I've had bad (extremely, very bad) experiences with UAL employees in the past BUT how could I logically conclude that the entire company and it's associated employees should be put out of business based on that. Pilots writing to congressmen smacks of vindictiveness.

If they go out business, it should be because of unsound business, not because of all the petty previously mentioned craap. God, I'm going to have to stop reading this stupid board.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey potrack:


So you think that pilots working for AWA, AirTran and JetBlue who make $60./hr as FO's are whores? Sounds like you are getting what you have coming to you.

Do the rest of us a favor, though, and save that B.S. for your new friends at Home Depot that don't know any better.

I'll make sure to tell your former coworkers- who we have given jobs to- how you describe them. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

What an idiot.