UAL/CAL Scope Arbitration Decision?

[nimtz]

Wow. Yup I was wrong. Very wrong. Congrats to the UAL/CAL pilot group. Beat a very smart lawyer at his own game.

Eat Crow young whipper snapper. Any more lessons to give us under educated mainline fools?!? Let me guess, you picked Texas to go to the Fiesta Bowl this year too right?

To the Skywest and yes even Republic guys. Just remember that Uncle Jerry told you he was positive that proposed 70 seat flying was NOT a violation of CAL scope clause. Well Uncle Jerry's word is now wrong. Seems like he can eat crow too. Botom line, you fly 70 seaters out of CAL hubs under CAL flt # then you are in direct violation of arbitrated scope decision. Yeah go fly it if you insist that you have no choice, but don't expect me to look at you with anything but disgust...

 

[princeton]

I guess that makes you a scab like me then!

Why? Not as long as you're doing it in a 50 seater.

 

[bluefin]

My guess, if it was in favor of the union we would have heard about it already. It probably went for the company and the mec is, "evaluating all options". I hope I am wrong.

I was wrong!!!! that has never happened before . This should be the wake up call, shot across the bow, that scope is non-negotiable and a strike item!!!!!

 

[rogerdoger]

Why? Not as long as you're doing it in a 50 seater.

I'm just joking. It seams these bitter old CO pilots like to throw the scab label at SkyWest pilots without restraint. When in fact half of there pilots are scabs in the first place.

 

[rogerdoger]

To the Skywest and yes even Republic guys. Just remember that Uncle Jerry told you he was positive that proposed 70 seat flying was NOT a violation of CAL scope clause. Well Uncle Jerry's word is now wrong. Seems like he can eat crow too. Botom line, you fly 70 seaters out of CAL hubs under CAL flt # then you are in direct violation of arbitrated scope decision. Yeah go fly it if you insist that you have no choice, but don't expect me to look at you with anything but disgust...

Blah Blah Blah... get over yourself.

 

[nimtz]

Blah Blah Blah... get over yourself.

Why cause dopes like you told us repeatedly we were wasting our time defending the only outstanding part our contract? Good thing we don't listen to little boys that make noise. Adios...

 

[rogerdoger]

Why cause dopes like you told us repeatedly we were wasting our time defending the only outstanding part our contract? Good thing we don't listen to little boys that make noise. Adios...

Righttt. First of all I have never said that. Secondly I am happy the court ruled in your favor. Lastly, dont be disgusted with SkyWest pilots. Instead be disgusted with both of our managments for letting it get to this.

 

[Flopgut]

I'm just joking. It seams these bitter old CO pilots like to throw the scab label at SkyWest pilots without restraint. When in fact half of there pilots are scabs in the first place.

Bitter?! We won. What's there to be bitter about? Look, you just need to go to your company and tell them you don't want to violate a lawful scope clause. BTW: where did you get that guppy killer bag sticker? I want to get one with your airplane on it... Sorry, couldn't resist....

*edit: Actually, I couldn't imagine putting a sticker like that on my bag. No matter how bad things might have gotten. I can't believe so many of you guys have those guppy killer stickers....

 

[777forever]

Man I just can't get over that BOOTY.

Badonkadonk!

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Yeah, its gonna be done with Skywest CRJ-200's for now. Weather the IAH base remains open is up to question now.

Not 100% sure, but as I read the T& P Agreement, there can be no base openings in either UAL or CAL bases by the other carriers etc. I'm not sure if an IAH base can be opened by a UAL complimentary or code share carrier.

Yogi

 

[rogerdoger]

Bitter?! We won. What's there to be bitter about? Look, you just need to go to your company and tell them you don't want to violate a lawful scope clause. BTW: where did you get that guppy killer bag sticker? I want to get one with your airplane on it... Sorry, couldn't resist....

*edit: Actually, I couldn't imagine putting a sticker like that on my bag. No matter how bad things might have gotten. I can't believe so many of you guys have those guppy killer stickers....

I am happy you won. But you can't deny that you guys are still bitter about the whole situation in the first place. I hope you guys take back all jet flying. Even 50 seaters. That way we all have a better chance at getting a job at a major.

 

[nimtz]

Righttt. First of all I have never said that. Secondly I am happy the court ruled in your favor. Lastly, dont be disgusted with SkyWest pilots. Instead be disgusted with both of our managments for letting it get to this.

So by your logic one could only have anger towards Frankie Lorenzo and not the '83 heroes for busting the strike back in the day. Thanks for the insight to the discussion! Good night neophyte...

 

[bender]

Bitter?! We won. What's there to be bitter about? Look, you just need to go to your company and tell them you don't want to violate a lawful scope clause. BTW: where did you get that guppy killer bag sticker? I want to get one with your airplane on it... Sorry, couldn't resist....

*edit: Actually, I couldn't imagine putting a sticker like that on my bag. No matter how bad things might have gotten. I can't believe so many of you guys have those guppy killer stickers....

I've never seen one of those stickers at SKW. In fact, I've never seen one of those stickers on any bags.

 

[whymeworry?]

I'm just joking. It seams these bitter old CO pilots like to throw the scab label at SkyWest pilots without restraint. When in fact half of there pilots are scabs in the first place.

Bitter, no. We're fighters. But we don't expect you to get that. Certainly our mgmt doesn't.

Old? Dunno, that's a perception issue, I suppose. We hired a heck of a lot of 20-somethnigs during the last boom. I would estimate that more than 40% of our pilots are under the age of 40... if that's old to you, so be it.

Half of our pilots scabs? Hardly, most are gone (thankfully). The rest are far out-numbered. I don't have the latest figures but I would estimate less than 20% left are scabs, I've heard as little as 10%. Not sure there. But they're marginalized for sure. A scab would never get into a union-elected position these days, that's for sure. All that said, I will admit the scab-mentality has permeated into other areas of the pilot group over the years but those guys are coming around slowly.

As far as our issues with SKYW pilots. If you would've been forced into the base or forced into a trip here we would understand. But to those opportunists who bid into IAH, etc. Well, you guys will never get it. And we don't expect you to, however, you shouldn't expect anything but disdain from us as well. But that's all a moot point now that we won. Now lets see what next battle the company has in store for us.

 

[rtmcfi]

Congrats to ALL pilots on the ruling. It is nice to see labor win one every once in a while. I can tell you that the overwhelming response on the SkyWest company boards is one of relief. Except for some guys that commute from IAH, none of the SkyWest guys wanted a thing to do with the flying. I just hope that Smeigel doesnt find a way to beat this on appeal.

 

[Deerkiller]

I'm just joking. It seams these bitter old CO pilots like to throw the scab label at SkyWest pilots without restraint. When in fact half of there pilots are scabs in the first place.

Not even close. Care to try again?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Hey , where is the picture of the deer? I want to see something. Deerkiller is kind of funny. Atleast you won't be lagos for a while! Get out of there man. Tell your wife to call your mom!

 

[Gottafly74]

Smisek will simply live in his state of denial... This arrogant ass will probably not mention anything in the daily company propaganda about how his fancy law degree got him nothing but a tooth knocked out. His right wing bashing of unions, his threats to various employee groups, and his disdain for any hard working dedicated employee will continue. This scumbag even suggested after the merger with United that the Continental CBA's were null and void and gave him Carte Blanche to do what ever his dictator ass wanted to. I can honestly say that I've never met a more out of touch, totally disconnected from reality, corporate raider in my life. Lorenzo, Icahn, and the ********************bags on CNBC (Kudlow) that blame labor for all that is wrong with airlines, will surely be upset that their goldenchild got thumped. He might even be against airlines being under the RLA because he will be unable to tie this up for countless years in numerous appeals through the judicial labyrinth!

All that said, I fully expect Smisek and Company to disregard the decision and continue with their current path of destruction of our profession and ou company mainly because there isn't a set monetary penalty if they don't comply. In his Wallstreet lawyer mind, he will do what in the Wallstreet anarchist manifesto believes. Violate until penalized!!! Then settle for pennies on the dollar and violate some more!! Wonder if he is padding his resume for Goldman Sachs. After all, Blankfeins salary was more than what GS paid in taxes and dwarfs what he would ever make at UA.

After this decision, maybe outsourcing his job would be the best for the new UA. I'm sure they can find plenty smarter than him in China or India that would work a lot cheaper and better. Hopefully the board of the new UA will notice what has just occurred, they picked the wrong guy for this braintrust! Pay Bethune and Brenneman and they will lead this merger in the direction it needs to go.

Hasn't been a good week for CAL mgmt. Total meltdown in the northeast with disgruntled employees that are no longer willing to go the extra mile, losing a big case against the pilots and still begging for relief from contractual provisions while trying to openly violate it outside a snowstorm!

Speaking only for myself, RESIGN SMISEK!!!, take your money and go!! You have lost any credibility and leadership capital. Give the new UA a fighting chance and go find another gig.

 

[BID]

Hey buddy it's your fault that i fly regional airplanes at "record crapy wages". And thats because you signed in a "record crapy" scope clause that allowed it. Now that you have finally learned your lesson. Take back our "record crapy" regional jet flying in your next contract.

Yes, many mainline ALPA airline carriers sold scope. But not Continental, at least not yet ! Why do you think our CEO did this? he knows we will stand firm on NO SCOPE RELIEF. We have seen how this affects mainline airlines, they shrink. Regardless of what some MIT pros might say, it shrinks the mainline airline and results in less jobs there.

Something to think about, the new United Airline will only be slightly bigger than the United of 1998. How big was SkyWest in 1998? We are trying to bring those jobs back to mainline flying.

 

[settogathrust]

Having worked at SkyWest and knowing people still there. Nobody would ever run a "Gupppy Killer" sticker at SkyWest. The Republic guys flying EMB-170-190's for $37/ hr. in the right seat. That's another story.
Skywest does not fly 200, 700, and 900's for the same pay rate. You are thinking about Republic F/O's.
Please keep scope in tact and lets all try to work together. Management loves the fact that we are fighing with each other over this stuff. It makes us weaker and management stronger.
Fly safe.

 

[ForgedBlade]

All that said, I fully expect Smisek and Company to disregard the decision and continue with their current path of destruction of our profession and ou company mainly because there isn't a set monetary penalty if they don't comply. In his Wallstreet lawyer mind, he will do what in the Wallstreet anarchist manifesto believes. Violate until penalized!!! Then settle for pennies on the dollar and violate some more!! Wonder if he is padding his resume for Goldman Sachs. After all, Blankfeins salary was more than what GS paid in taxes and dwarfs what he would ever make at UA.

Kinda' thinking the same thing. If Simsek already has the ball rolling, I'm sure he isn't going to just back down. It will be an interesting '11 for sure, but at least the last week is over for now...

 

[Nevets]

Think twice????? And then what? Not got to work? Refuse to fly? And get fired? Remember we don't have a union at SkyWest. My employment at my airline is always at risk because I dont have the protection of a union. Unfortunatley for me. I was among the 32 percent that voted in favor of a union during the last drive.

Ok sure. I will refuse to fly in IAH or whatever other aweful bases continental has. Then what? Get fired? You continental pilots need to get over yourself's. Stop blaming us SkyWest pilots. Instead blame your crapy managment.

Were you forced to apply, interview, and accept your at-will employment?

 

[UAL-GSO]

Congrats to ALL pilots on the ruling. It is nice to see labor win one every once in a while. I can tell you that the overwhelming response on the SkyWest company boards is one of relief. Except for some guys that commute from IAH, none of the SkyWest guys wanted a thing to do with the flying. I just hope that Smeigel doesnt find a way to beat this on appeal.

You got that right. This is a win for all pilots. Some just may not realize it yet.

 

[sleeves]

Where did you source this from?

My UNION. You guys should look into one.

 

[johnsonrod]

Smisek will simply live in his state of denial... This arrogant ass will probably not mention anything in the daily company propaganda about how his fancy law degree got him nothing but a tooth knocked out. His right wing bashing of unions, his threats to various employee groups, and his disdain for any hard working dedicated employee will continue. This scumbag even suggested after the merger with United that the Continental CBA's were null and void and gave him Carte Blanche to do what ever his dictator ass wanted to. I can honestly say that I've never met a more out of touch, totally disconnected from reality, corporate raider in my life. Lorenzo, Icahn, and the ********************bags on CNBC (Kudlow) that blame labor for all that is wrong with airlines, will surely be upset that their goldenchild got thumped. He might even be against airlines being under the RLA because he will be unable to tie this up for countless years in numerous appeals through the judicial labyrinth!

All that said, I fully expect Smisek and Company to disregard the decision and continue with their current path of destruction of our profession and ou company mainly because there isn't a set monetary penalty if they don't comply. In his Wallstreet lawyer mind, he will do what in the Wallstreet anarchist manifesto believes. Violate until penalized!!! Then settle for pennies on the dollar and violate some more!! Wonder if he is padding his resume for Goldman Sachs. After all, Blankfeins salary was more than what GS paid in taxes and dwarfs what he would ever make at UA.

After this decision, maybe outsourcing his job would be the best for the new UA. I'm sure they can find plenty smarter than him in China or India that would work a lot cheaper and better. Hopefully the board of the new UA will notice what has just occurred, they picked the wrong guy for this braintrust! Pay Bethune and Brenneman and they will lead this merger in the direction it needs to go.

Hasn't been a good week for CAL mgmt. Total meltdown in the northeast with disgruntled employees that are no longer willing to go the extra mile, losing a big case against the pilots and still begging for relief from contractual provisions while trying to openly violate it outside a snowstorm!

Speaking only for myself, RESIGN SMISEK!!!, take your money and go!! You have lost any credibility and leadership capital. Give the new UA a fighting chance and go find another gig.

Screw management!!!!!! They suck! They should let us airline pilots run all airlines because we have all the right answers all the time.... We'd be so much better off....

 

[Swerpipe]

Smisek... This is just a taste of what's coming...

As angry as I was when I heard that CAL management was going to try to "test" our scope, I have to say that the pleasure that I felt yesterday seeing that Lorenzo wanna be, get egg in his face was worth the whole discomforting episode.
As pilots, we are all Nights in Shinning Armor. Our weapon: a throttle, the brakes and the formidable pen. We are all gathering, getting ready for battle. All I have seen since Smisek arrived is our service go down the drain, our customers have lost their love for us and the employees have become angry. This does not bode well for the Wallstreet's Merger and Acquisitions Poster child.
It looked like Smisek's mission was to come over, kick all the Unions around, collect some cash and go home. NOW... it looks like Smisek is going to be exchaging some blows, try to kick us around, then collect his cash and go home.

Get ready for your ego to be slapped a few times...

Good job Jeff! Way to get employees to find comfort and solidarity in each other! In about a year he will start getting pressure from everybody... Wallstreet, the board, the unions, everyone.

What is clear is that Jeff does not want to run an airline. Jeff is not a true leader. Jeff doesn't care about our collective careers. We don't care about you either...

See you in the battlefield...

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

Disrespect..

Well said..
Few years ago i came here to CAL with a positive attitude and appreciation for the company. Now all i have is disrespect and disgust for them.

I remember when our CEO used to say all along that he "doesn't need pilots' aproval or agreement to make the UA/CAL merger work.." Guess what, smart a%$ comments and threats that are unsustained and without any power give you nothing but lost credibility and laughs coming your way..

They teach numbers in law schools but i guess they haven't taught Smisek anything about 'coming down to the floor' to learn about and appreciate your workforce/employees that do the actual work for you..
Too bad, you have my minimum effort here at CAL (dont forget it was your choice).
Good luck running this airline, as you definitelly need luck with that attitude..

 

[Swerpipe]

The message

His message to the employee groups, at least FAs and pilots, has been "you are not important, we don't care about you..., it doesnt matter what you do, we dont care about you, you are inconsequential to our company, we don't care, you don't matter, did we mention we dont care about you?"

That is an ill informed, dumb, belligerent and ineffective way of leading a group of FAs and pilots into a merger. I'm sure that since he doesn't see himself staying in OUR company he doesn't think that forging long term relationships is important. He will learn that to be a dreadful mistake next year. He will see that showing up in the room as "the bad cop" will not turn out to be a good strategy.
He will learn that we are an essential part of this company, even more important than the aircrafts themselves.
In the meantime, let's get ready to be what keeps him up at night next year. Game on!

 

[Gottafly74]

Screw management!!!!!! They suck! They should let us airline pilots run all airlines because we have all the right answers all the time.... We'd be so much better off....

Yo,
Jeff junior, please keep your trust in mgmt to keep your best interests at heart.. I would certainly have more trust in an airline pilot to run an airline than any wallstreet, bean counting lawyer types. Dare you to name one single airline ceo currently that has a Howard Hughes, Juan Tripp, Bob Six, or Herb Kelleher type mentality in running an airline. This industry is infested with greedy, corrupt, corporate raiders who have no experience in aviation nor employee relations. Til then, keep your trust in them, you may actually become them. Sorry you lost your 70 seat gig for now.

 

[Swerpipe]

A great business plan

Yo,
Sorry you lost your 70 seat gig for now.

Here is a great business plan.... You fly a 70 or 90 seater while you provide that great service to majors, so that eventually you get that major job which will not be there.

Maybe there are guys who like their RJ gig and are content. So, in that case if you have no further expectations, I totally understand your point. I have nothing to argue with you... You are a worker in a business that needs you. If you feel save without a Union, great? you don't even have Union dues!

However, if you are working going through your day hoping that someday it will all be worthwhile and you finally get what you have worked for all along then....

BTW I don't know any pilots that think airlines work better if they are run by pilots... What we think is necessary is that we are "led" by leaders that make a LIFETIME commitment, the way we make it, (Herb?) to develop a long term relationships with the workers to be successful. How about you collect your money if you are successful after 25 years? Continental has the most efficient pilot workforce after Southwest (look it up). That small little fact has never been acknowledged by our management. Our performance is tied to that little neglected fact.
Leaders with Jeff's attitude are a recipe for disaster. He has inspired us to work against ourselves. Job well done...