ual-awac......

[Morning Wood]

Remember there hasn't been an announcement about the other 40 ac's worth of flying yet. Mesa may still do "alright" out of that. Mind you I just saw that their stock has fallen 15%



This one decision is going to have a far reaching impact for a lot of us, not just the AWAC pilot group. I wonder if Yonited has any idea of the fall out they're going to cause with this?

Do you honestly think they care what the fallout is/might be?

 

[Kenny]

Morning, Sorry I thought it would be obvious it was rhetorical. Not having a go at you, just wanted to be clear.

Besides I don't think they can afford to care anymore, just another desperate move on their part.

 

[Morning Wood]

Morning, Sorry I thought it would be obvious it was rhetorical. Not having a go at you, just wanted to be clear.

Besides I don't think they can afford to care anymore, just another desperate move on their part.

Kenny
I didn't take it that way. It was meant more of a slam on United,
not you. Sorry it came across that way.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Yo-Nited needs to go they have hurt too many people. End it now, one quick knockout is better then endless small blows.

Good idea. If they stopped flying tomorrow, taking down huge chunks of every company that feeds them at the same time, that would hurt a lot less than the endless small blows.

"Yonited". Man, that's rich! Just as clever as Repooplic and Freedumb.

Keep 'em coming! You guys are killin' me!

 

[scarlet]

Unite is done anyway---Yes you can blame other pilots--they will take your job for less--Jetblue--Airtran--southwest--Mesa--ChQ. that is americans altogether...--We want wal-mart prices and now you are getting them in all markets...But those pilots are pissed because they are still doing regional flying---5-8 legs aday....

Good Luck AWA

 

[WhiteCloud]

Since I believe that United is on the way out this is somewhat of a blessing in disguise. It gives AWAC a chance to move on. We can pass all sorts of blame around but by far the largest share of the shame goes to our ALPA union "brothers" at UAL. Not a peep about union flying being taken over by non union flying. I don't want to hear anymore crap from ALPA about don't work for this company or that because it hurts the industry. They work for the biggest union busting company out there and still accept their check every pay period and do nothing to preserve other ALPA jobs but their own. Maybe they can get preferential hiring at GoJets when UAL tanks.

 

[CaptBiff]

Thats my whole point. The ones that talk the most sh!t about lower paid regional competitors are the ones most likely to go and try and get a job at another LCC just because its a major. Still the same job, just less money compared to where the "bar" use to be. They are lowering the bar none the less.

 

[fam62c]

What a mess.

This whole industry is screwed up there's no doubt about that, however, I do have to wonder about some of what ARW does. If ARW had a relationship with UAL and they wanted it to continue and they had 125M to invest in a bankrupt airline........well you get the picture. I'm pretty sure that once ARW bankrolled one of UAL's competitors that it was over for sure, although it may have been over anyway. Maybe if ARW had approached UAL with 125M in investment capital UAL would have looked at things very differently. It's hard to believe that the solution to having problems with UAL is to get into bed with USAirways. They're both bankrupt but UAL has good hubs and an excellent worldwide route network while USAirways is a shell of a company that was mediocre at best even in it's prime. If I were insane and wanted to invest a bunch of cash in a reorganizing airline I would sure bet on UAL before USAirways. Anyway, best of luck to all of the ARW employees and hopefully the new partnership works out well. ARW is just another party on the list of many that UAL has screwed during bankruptcy. I don't know where this industry is headed but it aint good.

 

[bluefin]

where would all of you pilots go if ual went bye-bye? aca has proven you can't operate on your own with out mama watching! better watch out what you wish for!!!

 

[jpeace02]

bluefin

did you get kicked out of the big boy chat room in the "majors" section? cause i'm pretty sure nobody asked for your wisdom. besides i think you've got another pay cut to vote on. so go vote yes and then yes again.

 

[Illinois]

Socalplt,

I agree Skywest is better able to secure aircraft financing than others, and this saves a great deal of money when bidding for flying. But to imply by omission that we (SKYW Pilots) are not partly culpable by flying 700's for 200 rates is insulting to many in our profession. We, as a group, foolishly voted in favor of this almost two years ago.

Uncle Jerry & Co. astutely used our affirmation of these short-sighted pay rates, good financing, the abuse of pilots during training, random policy changes/interpretations, abrogation of seniority, and a good operation to put Skywest at the front of the list to replace AWAC for United.

To the few primarily blaming me personally for this mess,

The root of your anger stems from management decisions made somewhere between ATW and Elk Grove Village years ago. I am willing to silently remain on the list of those to blame, but Skywest pilot's should not be at the top.

Good luck to everyone at Air Wisconsin and the other carrier's affected by this transition.

 

[skeeter]

As long as there are "majors" "legacies" and "regionals", this stuff will continue. It is so interesting how the airlines are still hurting, yet I have seen more advertisements for FAST-TRACK type flight schools than ever before. "Fly a regional jet in 9 months for only 18K a year." My friends will think I'm sooo cool, (as long as I keep my salary a secret) Sarcasm intented.

AWAC, you guys really are a classy bunch of pilots, best of luck to you guys.

Skeets

 

[Furloughs Suck]

April 22nd. is going to roll around quick, so if you can't beat em, then join em.
You'll want to get your app. in asap, because it will only take one dork to ruin it for you guys (ie:interviewee shoots his mouth off about how AWAC pilots are really pi$$sed at Skywest).
What were you doing to keep the bar raised? ALPA and mgnt. played you big time. The 'boot in the butt strategy' will be used as an example against Mesa and Skywest to set a new standard shortly. We really have'nt seen a new low yet.
Ironically, the fact that Skywest pilots don't have a union probably was the reason they gained so much from this whole scam.

What are you doing with a house? Did you ever think your career with a commuter could reliably support a house and kids. That's just irresponsible. Rent an apartment and use birth control, or get a job with real stability. Yeah, you'll actually have to work, but that's what happens when you don't plan ahead.

Thank goodness this won't effect the senior guys. I hope you all can hang on long enough to get on with a big airline soon and put this experience behind you.

I’m sorry but cant be the only one who saw this post? I know I don’t post much, but wait just one second. We need to stop fighting each other and work together. You should to have the ability to work in this industry, at this level(flying people.. souls if you will.. for money) and make a living wage. Have a family if you wish and purchase a house or condo. Have a life! When was it a rule that you had to wait until you got a job flying a DC 9; 737; A320 to make a wage that allows you to enjoy your life. If we continue to allow ourselves to be pitted one pilot group against another no one will ever earn what we are worth as professionals.
WE SHOULD ALL MAKE ENOUGH AND HAVE THE BENEFITS TO SUPPORT A FAMILY AND OWN A HOUSE. A ENTRY LEVEL PROFESSIONAL IN ANY OTHER FIELD WOULDN’T ACCEPT A POSITION WITH LOW PAY FOR THE PROMISE OF SOMETHING GREATER IN THE FUTURE WHY SHOULD WE??? WTF?

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Be careful when pointing fingers!!! Some of you are blaming SKYW pilots for what is happening here. This was a UAL and management decision. Also look at the pay rates at AWAC and SKYW. SKYW actually has higher pay scales, and there is a raise in the works. Also there is a bonus program in place that is working out to be substantial. I'm not saying that SKYW is so great, but they are far from the bottomfeeder that you accuse them to be. The pilot group has made mistakes, but not with any malicious intent toward any other group.

Just think what USAir regionals will be saying when the same happens to them. AWAC will replace them having "bought" the jobs for a cool 125M. It kinda looks like the biggest pay for training/job scandal I have ever seen. Unfortunately, this is the business model that this industry is heading towards. I just hope it stops soon.

These are just a few thoughts above. I sincerely hope that all AWAC employees weather this well. With the exception of a few in this thread, you are a class act, and I wish no hardship your way. And as a professional, I will not ever deny a jumpseat, nor will I hold a grudge while interviewing. I wish you and your families the best.

Yogi

 

[jjetpilot]

I have many friends over there at AWAC and am heartbroken to see this news....my condolences and wish your pilot group only good things in the future.

Where does this stop?

 

[House_X]

You (SKW) are at the top of the list right now...because you accepted to fly those 70s for 50 rates. What gets many pilots pi$$ed off is all the bragging going on at your organization. But the reality is YOU allowed yourselves to be sold out...now its at the expense of AWAC. Meanwhile WE (regional pilots) are broke, with no hope in sight.

SKW, YOU can stop the cycle...stand up, get organized, get your pay...you deserve it. You guys have a great pilot group, but its all talk and no action...

ALPA, Teamsters, internal union, it doesnt matter...you better get that money!!!

Socalplt,

I agree Skywest is better able to secure aircraft financing than others, and this saves a great deal of money when bidding for flying. But to imply by omission that we (SKYW Pilots) are not partly culpable by flying 700's for 200 rates is insulting to many in our profession. We, as a group, foolishly voted in favor of this almost two years ago.

Uncle Jerry & Co. astutely used our affirmation of these short-sighted pay rates, good financing, the abuse of pilots during training, random policy changes/interpretations, abrogation of seniority, and a good operation to put Skywest at the front of the list to replace AWAC for United.

To the few primarily blaming me personally for this mess,

The root of your anger stems from management decisions made somewhere between ATW and Elk Grove Village years ago. I am willing to silently remain on the list of those to blame, but Skywest pilot's should not be at the top.

Good luck to everyone at Air Wisconsin and the other carrier's affected by this transition.

 

[Socalplt]

Socalplt,

I agree Skywest is better able to secure aircraft financing than others, and this saves a great deal of money when bidding for flying. But to imply by omission that we (SKYW Pilots) are not partly culpable by flying 700's for 200 rates is insulting to many in our profession. We, as a group, foolishly voted in favor of this almost two years ago.



I hate the idea of flying 70's for 50 seat rates. In fact I don't. Fortunately, I'm at a domicile where I haven't been forced to. (For those that don't know ORD and SMF have been forced to get the differences training.) I voted against the last pay package because of this, and the one before it for not raising new hire pay. I'll also vote against the next one if it is for only 1%.

I'm not sure what AWACs pay rates are, however I remember seeing something on the order of $67/hr for the 70 and $61/hr. for the 50 at year six versus $65.25 for SkyWest. I'm sure the difference is greater for the year 18 guys. If the new pay package passes with a 1% increase and we average a 6% margin for the profit sharing, my hourly rate will average out to $69.85. Based on this I can't see how our rate for flying the seventy is the primary reason AWAC is losing the flying.

 

[D.sanchez]

DONTFEEDTHEBEAR said:

SKYW actually has higher pay scales, and there is a raise in the works

Who do you think you're kidding Dontfeedthebear?

SKYW pilots fly 70 seat airplanes for 50 seat rates.

Rates from airlinepilotpay.com
SKYW 5th year CA: 63 FO: 38
AWAC 5th year (Bae146) CA:71 FO: 41

 

[Green]

Furloughs suck,

Very well said. I wish more pilots shared your attitude. It is ridiculous to think that pilots should put their lives on hold untill reaching a major. Particularly considering the fact that mainline line jets are being increasingly farmed out to the 70-100 seat rj's and the very real posibility of increasing the mandatory retirement age.

 

[rptrain]

I’m sorry but cant be the only one who saw this post?

No, you're not, but I think everyone's just letting it go because he's obviously such an idiot.