UAL 12yr Captain pay

[SpauldingSmails]

Ironically, there aren't 10 yr Capt's at either!

On a similar topic, once upgrading at VA, doesn't the scale reset to year one CA pay again? i.e. 4-year FO upgrades, assumes year 1 CA pay.

 

[jayme]

No. That got fixed about 2 years ago.

 

[Metrojet]

AAA $124/HR for the last 7 years for A320 and no change coming soon.

And the West CA rate is $144 - and the West really tried hard to help the East get parity right? WRONG!

And the Company furloughed out of order right? WRONG!

Metrojet

P.S. - I wouldn't be so sure there is no change coming soon (maybe for the West) but the East is awaiting the deliberation on LOA 93.

 

[chase]

FOL,

Not going to get into a debate over age 60 but your observations do describe one aspect of the change that no doubt has altered the career expectations for many pilots. Just as the unexpected economic downtown froze hiring or high fuel prices have contributed but obviously as you would point out, SWAPA had nothing to do with the latter but much to do with the former....agreed.

Employees don't usually need to apologize for the business model their company has used to be profitable (exceptions for those businesses that are immoral or illegal obviously) so I personally do not feel the need to apologize for SWA's approach to their method for making a profit. I'm quite proud they continue to make decisions based upon the knowledge that bad times can come very quickly and one must be prepared both financially and structurally to respond without the knee jerk reaction of furloughs to solve short or long term failed business decisions.

I would disagree with your assessment of SWAPA "dragging" anyone down....the airlines that reduced wages, furloughed employees and scrapped retirements did because of poor management decisions. It is a shallow argument that employee wages caused these tragedies; just as shallow to reference that SWA led to their demise. Business models are "amoral" in my opinion, management that treats its labor as if they are rubbish are on the other end of the scale IMHO.

As you said, my kudos to SWA's leadership and like you, "full of luv"...

 

[LandGreen]

UAL/CAL pilots: I hope the NEG CMTEE....as a LAST resort, accepts nothing less than SWA pay rationalized on an aircraft seat basis. IOW, SWA pay rates represent the smallest jet at UAL/CAL and therefore the lowest payrate. More seats, more revenue, more pay.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

UAL/CAL pilots: I hope the NEG CMTEE....as a LAST resort, accepts nothing less than SWA pay rationalized on an aircraft seat basis. IOW, SWA pay rates represent the smallest jet at UAL/CAL and therefore the lowest payrate. More seats, more revenue, more pay.

Had this very discussion with two members of NC. They said unlikely, because SWA's lack of many work rules helps compensate for the difference. They are aiming for similar flight deck costs per hour and then some. Rates will not be as big, but work rules will bring your W-2 to a comparable level.

FWIW
yogi

 

[B727Driver]

"Because Swa's lack of many work rules...".

Please give examples of the work rules that are lacking over at SWA.

Smaller per hour rates with equal W-2's equates to extra pay for doing nothing. Not very efficient for long term success, don't mgmt will bite on this one. That type of compensation is reserved for mgmt (the doing nothing part). Thx Yogi.

 

[Scrapdog]

Had this very discussion with two members of NC. They said unlikely, because SWA's lack of many work rules helps compensate for the difference. They are aiming for similar flight deck costs per hour and then some. Rates will not be as big, but work rules will bring your W-2 to a comparable level.

FWIW
yogi

SWA is about the best run airline there is (in regards to effeciency and treating its employees right). I'm not quite sure what crappy work rules you are referring to.

 

[Quiet Flight]

"Because Swa's lack of many work rules...".

I think maybe this means lack of restrictive work rules placed on pilots. i.e. no floor, no cap, etc. There are a few like this but essentially a SWA pilot can fly 100/month and a 1000/year if he wants to. He can also shed his entire schedule if he wants to. just my $.02

 

[IAHERJ]

I think what we are looking for is pay plus our retirement(that's when the company contributes money monthly into your retirement account and you don't have to match anything) and soft pay rules that bring pilots at CAL/UAL flying the smallest aircraft to a W-2 level at or above the 737 guru's over at SWA. We just got our profit sharing back with the transition agreement and throw in better pay for the larger aircraft and you have a contract most will be happy with. Now the scope issue will be the hot issue.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

SWA is about the best run airline there is (in regards to effeciency and treating its employees right). I'm not quite sure what crappy work rules you are referring to.

RIF...If you know what that means! I did not say crappy, I said lack. You forget to factor in retirement (CAL/UAL pilots get 13 to 18 % into a retirement account on top of payrates, plus some that still have defined benefit programs), pay for time in customs (something that SWA will find out if they do international someday), pay for certain kinds of hub and spoke model caused delays. Soft pay is huge! What it will come down to is 'cockpit cost per hour', that is what will determine a comparative base. You might want to check out this link, it may actually surprise you...

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/...ail Cockpit Cost Per Block Hour Summary09.htm


I actually really like SWA. It's just a different business model. You can do mostly 30 minute turns, swap aircraft easily, and run an efficient operation with one type fleet. We can't do that, so we can't get paid 7-8 hrs of block time per day. So we need soft pay! Sometimes, our ops (intnl, etops, hub and spoke) can drag a 14 hr duty day with 4-5 hours of pay. We need different work rules.

Yogi

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

"Because Swa's lack of many work rules...".

Please give examples of the work rules that are lacking over at SWA.

Smaller per hour rates with equal W-2's equates to extra pay for doing nothing. Not very efficient for long term success, don't mgmt will bite on this one. That type of compensation is reserved for mgmt (the doing nothing part). Thx Yogi.

See my previous post. Hope you understand.

Yogi

 

[waveflyer]

I agree w/ yogi and think a lot of people- even those who work for hub and spoke carriers- have forgot why soft pay and rigs exist- pilots should not have to finance the hub and spoke model- and there must be a financial incentive to schedule crews efficiently or they won't.

 

[B727Driver]

Thx Yogi. When SWA finally goes international, these types of rules are something SWAPA would have to look at.