Two people in Aviation with Kids. Does it work?

[HA25]

So you are saying that an all female crew on UAL's Souix City accident (unmanned as they like to say...) would have not been as successful?

Let's just say the odds would have been much worse.

More important is the Capt. Bryce McCormick incident with the DC10 that lost 2 of the 3 systems and the "manhandling" that it took to get it down with no lives lost.

In the end, you can't cheat the laws of physics with PC.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In this excerpt..... the author says it was McCormicks self initiated sim prep. Then again Mega is a man trapped in a womans body so I think she can handle it.....

The American Airlines pilot had, entirely on his own initiative, spent hours preparing himself for a problem that the aircraft designers had dismissed as hopelessly improbable.

On June 12, 1972, Mrs. Al Kaminsky was a passenger on American Airlines Flight 96 when the rear cargo door blew out with an almighty bang. The floor at the rear of the DC-10 collapsed, and panels in the cabin flew open. One of them gashed Kaminsky’s face. When the plane turned back and landed in Detroit, she hesitated about jumping from the top of the escape slide; a flight attendant had to push her out. Kaminsky slipped at the bottom and cut her foot to the bone. Finally, FBI agents detained her to interrogate her, her husband, and the other passengers about being suspected terrorists. “They tried to kill me!” Kaminsky was later heard saying.
That was true, if “they” were an armload of thoughtlessly designed parts on the DC-10’s cargo door. More important is that some people—mainly Capt. Bryce McCormick—saved Kaminsky’s life.
In every other instance in which airliners in flight faced the kind of mechanical crisis that Flight 96 did—pilots losing most of the flight controls—those airplanes crashed, killing all or many on board. McCormick, who mentally had girded himself two months earlier for just such an extreme emergency, brought everybody back home. The story of how McCormick happened to be in the wrong place at the right time is one of the most remarkable stories from the machine frontier.
In his first 28 years with American Airlines, McCormick mastered six types of airliners. Now with the DC-10 jumbo jet coming from McDonnell Douglas, McCormick looked it over tip to top. He even climbed inside the cargo compartment, where one thing bothered him: the location of the control linkages that governed the rear engine, rudder, and elevator on the tail. The DC-10 had three independent sets of control cables and hydraulic lines running to the tail. That was good, but those independent lines ran right next to each other. A problem that knocked out one could cut the others. McCormick pondered the fact that the DC-10, unlike the other jets he had flown, offered no manual backup system if the hydraulics failed.
To prepare McCormick for the changeover to the DC-10, American Airlines summoned him to its Fort Worth, Texas, training center in March 1972. One afternoon, McCormick told his instructor that he was worried about losing the hydraulic system. He asked for extra time on the simulator to determine if he could control and then land the giant airplane without a hydraulic system, using nothing but the engine throttles. McCormick was pleasantly surprised to find that he could. With a few more hours of simulator practice, McCormick was able to take off, fly around, and land using only the three throttle levers. He steered left by pulling back on the left-hand engine and advancing the right-hand engine; he steered right by doing the opposite. He made the DC-10 climb and descend by adjusting power on the tail-mounted engine, whose location on the fin gave him considerable leverage.
Although McCormick didn’t know it, an obscure mishap during the initial testing of the DC-10 foreshadowed exactly the kind of problem that his intuition and experience told him might occur.
Because the interiors of airliners are pressurized while flying in the thin air of high altitude, and because the higher air pressure inside pushes with great force toward the lower pressure outside, any outward-swinging door—such as the DC-10’s cargo door—will pop open unless it is gripped shut with a latch. So the DC-10 cargo door mechanism required the baggage handler to pull down the top-hinging door and shut it; swing down a lever on the outside of the door; press and hold a button that operated an electric motor at the top of the door until he heard a click; and wait seven more seconds until he heard the motor stop running. On the inward side of the door, that motor caused latches to reach out and grasp a metal fitting. If the motor didn’t lower the latches all the way, the door would appear to be closed until the airplane reached enough altitude to let the pressure differential blow the door out.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

.....

On May 29, 1970, during a cabin-pressure test at a hangar in Long Beach, Calif., an improperly closed cargo door burst open, causing the floor of the passenger compartment holding pressurized air to crash down into the cargo compartment holding now-unpressurized air. But the only thing that proved to McDonnell Douglas was that some joker on an airport tarmac might not press the electric button long enough to finish the latching process. The solution was to put a hole in the door for a vent flap that would be closed by the same linkage that shut the cargo door. If the vent didn’t shut, the pilots would know from the air leakage that there was a problem before they got high enough for the cargo door to blow out. It was foolproof, except for one thing: A little excessive force by a baggage handler, struggling to shut the door, could make the vent flap closed even though the cargo door wasn’t fully locked. The pilots would take off without knowing there was a problem.
On June 12, 1972, with fewer than 100 hours on the DC-10, McCormick got a chance to try out his new skill on a real airplane with real passengers. He was the captain of American Airlines Flight 96, originating in Los Angeles and terminating in New York, with stops along the way. During a brief layover in Detroit, a cargo handler had trouble closing the rear cargo door. By leaning his knee on the closing lever, the handler got the cargo door to shut, but the little vent flap looked askew. He called a mechanic, and they opened and shut the door again, deciding it was good enough. A warning light in the cockpit blinked out, telling the crew the door was locked. It wasn’t.
Climbing on autopilot at an altitude of 12,000 feet with 67 people aboard, Flight 96 was near Windsor, Ontario, when things went crazy on the flight deck. The crew heard a bang from the rear of the plane, and a jolt slammed co-pilot Paige Whitney and McCormick back in their seats. The left rudder pedal jammed to the floor, and the engine throttles flew back to idle. McCormick’s right leg came up, and his knee hit him in the chest as a blast of dust, grit, and rivets blew into his face, knocking off his headset. The emergency trim handle broke off in his hands.
McCormick tried moving the control column back to level out the airplane, but the elevator controls were so damaged that he could budge the column only with great difficulty. The airplane went into a right-hand turn and began nosing into a dive that, if not stopped, would be its last. Cockpit warning lamps flared up from one side of the panel to the other, telling of an engine fire and dangerously low air speed, among many other problems. The only things McCormick and Whitney could think of as the cause were a midair collision or a bomb.
In fact, the air pressure had generated so much leverage that it sheared off metal pins and blew the cargo door out. The door broke in two, folding the top part up like the lid of a tin can and sending the bottom to crash against the tail and fall to the ground. Just as happened in the 1970 hangar test, the cabin floor near the door collapsed. The collapse jammed the control cables to the tail.
As the round cocktail bar at the rear of the airplane collapsed into the crater that appeared in the floor, flight attendant Bea Copeland fell into the pit. She looked through the hole in the fuselage at her feet to see the landscape below.
McCormick pushed the wing-engine throttles to full power, bringing the airplane out of its dive. To counteract the right-hand bank from the jammed rudder, he turned the wheel on his control column 45 degrees to the left and kept it there. Then he paused to take stock of the situation. McCormick’s simulator training had taught him to avoid sudden moves, because the tiny edge of control he still had couldn’t extract the plane out of a steep dive or turn.
He and Whitney alerted air traffic control and, afraid of a possible fire, shut down the tail engine. McCormick nudged the wing engine throttles to see if he could control the airplane in the same way he had in the simulator. It worked. The DC-10 had a fatally flawed cargo-door design, but, as McCormick knew, the layout of its engines made it unusually well-suited to steering by engine power.
In one respect, McCormick was a little better off than he had prepared for in the simulator sessions: He had some use of the elevator control, although only one side was working, and every time he used the elevator it tried to roll the airplane over. In another respect, McCormick was worse off than in his simulator training, because he had no control over the tail engine.
Turning the wheel on the control column to the left leveled the airplane’s wings but left McCormick without enough use of the ailerons to control the airplane’s path. He could probably keep the airplane under control in midair, but could he steer it back to a runway?
At this point, the procedures manual called for an emergency descent to lower altitudes, but McCormick overruled that. The passengers could survive the thin air of 12,000 feet for a few moments, but his control over the airplane wouldn’t survive any sudden moves.
Flight attendant Copeland pulled herself to safety from the collapsed floor, and McCormick, citing a “mechanical problem,” coolly informed passengers that American Airlines would provide a new plane at Detroit so their trip could continue. The passengers’ mood lifted immediately. Suddenly, they could see beyond this apparently fatal problem to life on the ground.
Working very slowly, McCormick turned the jet back to Detroit’s Wayne County Airport. In a feat of airliner piloting that has never been equaled, McCormick kept the crippled DC-10 under control to the runway threshold.
It came in hot, at 186 m.p.h., because the only way McCormick could keep the airliner from tipping forward and smashing into the ground was to maintain high power on the engines. Immediately after the plane touched down, the jammed rudder sent the airliner off the runway to the right, the nose gear threatening to break off every time the airplane slammed across a taxiway. Now, irony of ironies, the airplane was speeding toward a crash with the airport fire station. Both wing engines were at full reverse, but they weren’t going to be able to stop the aircraft in time.
Co-pilot Whitney seized the moment and steered the DC-10 to safety by cutting back on one thrust reverser. This overpowered the stuck rudder. The wheels finally came to rest.
Not one person was killed, and this aircraft would fly again, most recently for FedEx Corp. [www.fedex.com].
McCormick asked McDonnell Douglas to “fix the damn door.”

 

[capt. megadeth]

Then again Mega is a man trapped in a womans body so I think she can handle it.....

LOL!

 

[HA25]

I saw a speech by him about this incident at a get together of retired American Pilots a while back... it was all he and the other two could do to control the airplane with every bit of strength they had.

from your excerpt..
[/b]

"The emergency trim handle broke off in his hands.
McCormick tried moving the control column back to level out the airplane, but the elevator controls were so damaged that he could budge the column only with great difficulty." [/b]

Again, were it a cockpit of 3 100-130lb gals, I doubt it would have been the same outcome.. but then that's not PC, so go on shoot me!

 

[HA25]

well, no edit for some reason, but you understand where the bold should go..

 

[HA25]

Ok, off topic a bit, but I'm dying to know.. why can't I edit in this thread but I can in the others?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I saw a speech by him about this incident at a get together of retired American Pilots a while back... it was all he and the other two could do to control the airplane with every bit of strength they had.

from your excerpt..


"The emergency trim handle broke off in his hands.
McCormick tried moving the control column back to level out the airplane, but the elevator controls were so damaged that he could budge the column only with great difficulty."

Again, were it a cockpit of 3 100-130lb gals, I doubt it would have been the same outcome.. but then that's not PC, so go on shoot me!

Well maybe if McCormick used his mind instead of his muscle the elec. trim lever wouldn't have broken off in his hand... Sometimes the grace of a women in the cockpit is better than the braun of a man.

I think any feminist would rather have a 220lbs firefighter w/ 70lbs of turnout gear pull her and her babies (if they weren't at the "day care providers") instead of a 120lb gender boundry breaker girl (w/ 70 lbs of gear) out of the house.


Perhaps in the old school world of over built jet aircraft, like DC-8's, -9, and -10's of cable hyd systems.... Then again... are women having DC-8 problems at UPS?

but as we evolve into Airbus'? Can a man fly an Airbus better than a woman? I mean what can a man do to a side stick that a woman can't? Mega? can you do something to a stick-like object better than a man?

Ok, off topic a bit, but I'm dying to know.. why can't I edit in this thread but I can in the others?

Mega and Flyual have mind fcuked this thread so much it has denied edit function..

 

[capt. megadeth]

You two hash this one out amongst yourselves.

Mr. Rambo Catholic has worn me out.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I just hope, for Mr. Rambo's sake, that he calls in sick whenever he has to fly with a woman. I mean, poor guy, he's probably single pilot the entire time....that would tire me out.

 

[FlyUnited]

I see that FMS is in the process of interviewing over at VA. It all makes sense now. Don't like females having jobs that you can't seem to get? Is that why you seem so anti-female?

 

[HA25]

I see that FMS is in the process of interviewing over at VA. It all makes sense now. Don't like females having jobs that you can't seem to get? Is that why you seem so anti-female?

Well, the way I see it, there are two pluses to working someplace other than UAL... one, is that there is a bright future and rapid upgrade time. Two is that I don't have to fly with ever 90's era affirmative action captain on the planet!

 

[FlyUnited]

Yes, and you'll also fly domestic for the rest of your career at what some are comparing to an airline no better than a scab airline. Well done! (and the funniest part is you thought you had the right to criticize Mega and me?!?)

But to keep this in check, at this point, you are currently NOT flying as a employed pilot, correct? It just makes so much sense now why you wanted us not to be employed. For every female working means one less position for unemployed guys like YOU. Truth hurts.

Rez holds his beliefs because that is what they are....his BELIEFS. He believes in his family and wants what he thinks is best for them. You, on the other hand, want all the females out of the business, not for the betterment of their families, but because you want the positions to open up to give yourself a better chance at a career. Tsk-tsk.

 

[HA25]

Yes, and you'll also fly domestic for the rest of your career at what some are comparing to an airline no better than a scab airline. Well done! (and the funniest part is you thought you had the right to criticize Mega and me?!?)

But to keep this in check, at this point, you are currently NOT flying as a employed pilot, correct? It just makes so much sense now why you wanted us not to be employed. For every female working means one less position for unemployed guys like YOU. Truth hurts.

Rez holds his beliefs because that is what they are....his BELIEFS. He believes in his family and wants what he thinks is best for them. You, on the other hand, want all the females out of the business, not for the betterment of their families, but because you want the positions to open up to give yourself a better chance at a career. Tsk-tsk.

First of been there and done that on the international with the MD-11 at World for a long enough time to know it wasn't my idea of fun. No, I prefer to be home every night with my family which is one of the pluses of the Skybus model and one of the big reasons (besides 5000 stock options and profit share) I am considering it. As for unemployed... I've got real estate investments that I manage and get paid well from and I currently fly contract pilot on the Citation X at $850 per day plus all expenses for two different fortune 500 companies and do so on MY schedule; I wouldn't trade that for UAL.. I have several friends there and not a single one is happy.

Second of all, Scab is not a word you need to be trowing around lightly.. that word has a specific meaning in our profession and you had better learn it's meaning before you use it. UAL's 1st year pay is worse than Skybus, and if you consider the speed of upgrade and the higher pay with that, 2nd year is also higher.. by the 3rd year, I expect them to have significantly higher wages and/or profit share that more than offset the hourly wages, or I will not waste my time on them either... it's a simple risk=return opportunity to be a part of something new and big.. I don't think in hind sight many of us would have taken Southwest back in the late 70's... but who's laughing now?

Thirdly, don't question my "beliefs".. I know what they are, and just because it doesn't fit your Gloria Steinem model of what a woman should be, doesn't make it self serving. I know far too many people that agree 100% with my view to think that I'm some fluke.. But you go on and believe that you're part of the majority just because some stupid internet thread makes you feel better about your life!

Where ever I end up flying, it doesn't matter one bit for me as I've made my money outside aviation and have long since accepted that times have changed. The Dinosaurs called Legacy airlines are just dying a slow death rather than being hit by some giant meteore.

No airline or business model is immuned from the ever changing realities of the world.. and nothing lasts for ever. Those are two facts you can take to the bank.

Peace out!

 

[capt. megadeth]

LOL!

Fly....he wants to go to Skybus cuz he probably wants to be a captain off the street. I mean, if he HAD to fly with a female captain, God forbid, he might have a heart attack, or better yet, if something went wrong, he would have to "save the day". :laugh:


Whenever I had a problem when I was a captain, I was thanking the good Lord Jesus that I was flying with a MAN.....I mean, I just curled up in a ball, started sucking my thumb and let the "real" pilot handle it.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[CA1900]

Mega, you ever had the joy of flying with a pilot who sat in the cockpit and cried after screwing up an ILS? I have. I was absolutely stunned.

She's at AirTran now; have fun with her, guys!

 

[capt. megadeth]

Mega, you ever had the joy of flying with a pilot who sat in the cockpit and cried after screwing up an ILS? I have. I was absolutely stunned.

She's at AirTran now; have fun with her, guys!

No, but I have had the joy of flying with a cocky pilot who failed upgrade 3 times and called for the "TCAS CHECKLIST!!!!!!!!!!!!" when we lost a R Avionics bus. After I told him politely that, "Um, there is no TCAS checklist, but we have lost the R Avionics bus" after hand flying the airplane (auto pilot was on this bus) and finding the problem myself, he holed up in his little corner and wailed, "Well then, what do you want me to do?" like a little b!tch!

Just sit there and STFU! Don't know where HE is though.

 

[FlyUnited]

He's applying at VA

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

FMS-Speed... do you have any references that a cause factor or contributing cause to an aircraft accident (tranport category would be nice) was caused by lack of physical strength due to the pilot being female?

In addition, your theory is based upon all females being petite 120lbs built. I do believe there are many women that are not petite. In addition, I do believe that there are many men that are 120lbs soaking wet and many female pilots that are in shape and weigh 180lbs.

How should it be?

 

[HA25]

weight isn't the sole factor.. body fat index, and physiology is also a factor. a 120lb male will have more strength than a equally fit 120lb female, etc..

As for the studies.. I don't have anything that I can give you a link to, but there are a lot of written studies available thru the freedom of information act on the subject locked up in old DOD studies from the 60s and 70s on these subjects that were deemed too politically incorrect for our modern way of thinking..

The fact is, politics will trump reality in this subject. Just ask Cdr. Stumpf (ex-Navy instructor) about women and fighters.. and how the Navy brass covered up all the facts.

Last I heard he flew at Gemini Air Cargo, but he might be at Fedex now..

Anyway, I don't really care what anyone believes here, so I (like Mega) want to bow out of this thread.