Two MKE Air Cargo Carrier Inc. Shorts Collide in WI.

[nimtz]

Dude, nobody on this thread has speculated on anything, other than the smartass making the criminal charge statement.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=72289

Oh the Monday Morning Quaterbacking

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

I find myself speculating about what went wrong with alot of accidents..then I kick myself immediatly in the arse because I was not there and I will not judge their actions. Instead I wait and hear what happened then I look at it as a lesson that our fellow aviators gave their lives to teach us. I think most experienced pilots can recall at least one time where they thought after the fact "damn that was close", as the sweat rolls off our heads with a sigh of relief.

I have flown with Todd many times just before I left for Iraq with the Army. Ive said it before, and I'll say it again, he was one of the Best they had. I think everyone else who has flown with him would agree.

Prayers are with all who are involved

 

[FN FAL]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=72289

Oh the Monday Morning Quaterbacking

you're being pretty defensive, the article sheds some perception of culpability off of the pilots flying the ACC planes and as well as the guys that maintain the planes. If you saw differently, then go screw.

 

[Av8rPHX]

liveatc.net has archived atc recordings.. I found the archive for that timeframe... 17 seconds into it there was a call.. "mayday mayday Shorts 372.." then an unreadable transmission.

 

[PCL_128]

I heard the rumor that the 2nd crew could potentially face 3 counts of manslaughter??

I really hope this isn't true. I met the Captain of the surviving airplane about a year ago when he was an FO on the Shorts, and he seemed like a great guy. From what I've heard from a friend at ACC, it sounds like Andy did an excellent job of getting that damaged airplane back on the ground. He certainly doesn't deserve to take any heat from some overzealous prosecutor.

 

[FN FAL]

I really hope this isn't true....He certainly doesn't deserve to take any heat from some overzealous prosecutor.

Here's something to think about in the event that they do...police are better than everyone else and shouldn't face the same consequences as other citizens, so maybe we all ought to get jobs as part time cops? Here's the rub, not only did these cops possess machineguns illegally against Federal Law, they also violated their own state's law by possessing them.

Officials rally around Illinois officers facing weapons charges
By Joel Currier
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Tuesday, Feb. 07 2006

FAIRVIEW HEIGHTS

Ten years in prison would be excessive punishment for three state police
officers accused on weapons charges, according to a letter issued Tuesday by top police officials and two state senators.
The letter was signed by 10 current police chiefs, two county sheriffs, the two senators and a retired police chief. The three troopers were charged last month with violating federal firearms regulations by having illegal submachine guns at their homes.


"We do not see how the citizens are made safer by placing these troopers in
jail," the letter states. "Discipline may absolutely be in order; however, to
federally prosecute them and with a possible jail term is not the answer."
The officers are Special Agent John Yard, 36, of Collinsville; Sgt. James V.
Vest, 39, of O'Fallon; and Senior Master Trooper Greg Mugge, 51, of Jerseyville.
The charge of illegal possession of an automatic weapon carries a maximum
penalty of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, although federal guidelines
suggest substantially less punishment for people with no previous criminal
background.


"We just feel that what the government is doing with these troopers is
excessive," said Belleville Police Chief David Ruebhausen, who wrote, signed
and distributed the letter. "We don't feel that the punishment fits the alleged
crime."

Under federal firearms laws, police officers cannot own fully automatic
weapons, which can fire a steady stream of bullets with one squeeze of a
trigger.

U.S. Attorney Ed McNally, based in Fairview Heights, responded with a prepared statement Tuesday night, saying it is unusual for public officials and law enforcement officials to weigh in on criminal cases and that the case will be decided by a federal court. The criticisms in the letter should be directed to Congress, because prison sentences for the alleged crimes were set by Congress, the statement said.

Those who put their names on the letter also included Alton Police Chief Chris
Sullivan, Granite City Police Chief Richard Miller, Collinsville Police Chief
Scott Williams, Sauget Police Chief Patrick Delaney, Waterloo Police Chief Joe
Brauer, Columbia Police Chief Joe Edwards, Wood River Police Chief William
Webber, East Alton Police Chief Darren Carlton and Smithton Police Chief Brian Vielweber.
Also signing the letter were retired Belleville Police Chief Terry Delaney,
Madison County Sheriff Robert Hertz, Bond County Sheriff Jeff Brown and state senators Bill Haine, D-Alton, and Frank Watson, R-Greenville

 

[Airbus300]

Sister says Texan was born to fly

02/08/2006
Associated Press

The youngest of three crew members killed when two cargo planes collided, sending one into a fiery crash, was born to fly, his sister says.
The planes, which had been due to fly to Iraq this week for duty under a U.S. Defense Department contract, were flying near each other, with crew members taking pictures of the aircraft, when the accident happened late Sunday afternoon near Watertown.
Robert Chabot, 25, of Plano, Texas, died along with Todd Hagan, 42, and his wife Tracy Marshall-Hagan, 37, of Essex Junction, Vt., when their plane crashed into a cornfield and burned.
Both planes had been modified with larger fuel tanks to make the flight across the Atlantic Ocean for the work in Iraq.
The collision happened when one turned and made contact with the other, said Todd Fox, an investigator with the National Transportation Safety Board. The second plane managed to land safely at an airport despite extensive damage.
Steve Altnau, Air Cargo Carriers' director of operations, said Tuesday the company had "no clue" why the two crews were taking pictures of each other on what was to be a routine, roughly two-hour final systems verification flight before the planes headed to Iraq.
Chabot had moved to Wisconsin from California about a month ago in preparation for doing contract work for Milwaukee-based Air Cargo Carriers Inc. in Iraq, his sister Elizabeth Chabot said.
He began flying in high school in Plano, she said.
"He was born to fly," the sister told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "Ever since he was little, he wanted to be in the cockpit."
Their father flew for Delta Airlines for 30 years, she said.
The second plane made a rough landing at the Dodge County Airport in Juneau and its crew — Andrew Lambert, 26, and Rudy Nikolao, 52, both of Virginia, and Timothy VanderPloeg, 23, of Michigan — were not hurt, Dodge County Sheriff Todd Nehls said.
Altnau said Chabot and Hagan were to fly one Shorts 360 to Iraq on Monday, and Hagan's wife was on the flight Sunday just as a passenger.
Hagan began working for Air Cargo Carrier in October 1996 and Chabot was hired in May 2003, Altnau said.
"Both pilots were qualified as captains with the company," he said.
Of the crew that survived, Lambert was scheduled to fly the other Shorts 360 to Iraq on Monday with another pilot, Altnau said. VanderPloeg works for Air Cargo Carrier and Nikolao is with the U.S. military, Altnau said. Air Cargo Carriers started operations in 1986 as a delivery service and has about 135 employees. The Shorts 360, a twin-engine plane manufactured in Belfast, Northern Ireland, by Short Brothers PLC, carries a payload of 6,000 to 7,000 pounds.

 

[FN FAL]

Are you picking on Altnau because the article said he, "Didn't have a clue"?

 

[Airbus300]

Not picking on Steve at all. Just copied and pasted this article because it sounds like the company was not aware that they were going to take pictures. I am not second guessing the pilots either....Just cut and paste.

 

[Cstyle]

Todd and Robert were two of the nicest guys I ever had the pleasure of knowing. Both were also extraordinary aviators. This is truly a tragedy. Not only for their friends and family's, but also for the people they were about to go help. The work they were going to perform over there was very important; it would have saved many lives. (No, I will not comment further on this subject)

Thank you to all of the people who have sent condolences and kind words about my friends. Please know the Air Cargo family truly appreciates it.

To my fellow "Night Cargo" brothers and sisters: Keep your head up. We will get through this together. And please be safe out there. Call me if you want to talk.

Please keep Todd, Tracy and Robert's families in your heart. You can't imagine what they are going through right now. (Neither can I for that matter.) They are wonderful people experiencing something no one should ever have to. In the time I spent with them here in MKE over the last few days I came to understand how Todd and Robert became the men they were.

Also please think of Andy and Tim. What they are going through must be indescribable.

Shawn