Kalifornia
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2005
- Posts
- 217
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You guys are beating up on Kalifornia, but whether you like ALPA or not, he raises some valid points. I took the time to read the entire court case that was posted on that TWA pilot website. It was a few thousand pages long (double spaced), but I read it here and there and got through it in a few months. It was actually quite interesting. Those of you that are attacking.....did you read the case?
I think there were a few "stupid" things that ALPA did that they probably shouldn't have. Duane shouldn't have been visiting AMR at all while TWA was going through the throes of bankruptcy, but he did. The misquote about the TWA pilots having to "get real" (or whatever it was) made him look bad. The TWA pilots shouldn't have had to go to a IAM office to try to push their attempt at legislation through, but they did. There were a couple of other stupid things that ALPA did that "looked bad," so I could see where a juror could say, hey, ALPA did a lot for them, but they didn't do EVERYTHING they possibly could have for the TWA guys. But did that mean that had ALPA done EVERYTHING perfectly that the TWA guys would have had a DOH seniority integration with AMR or that TWA would still be alive? I don't think so.
Let's face it. TWA was in a financial hurting. The TWA guy's own financial advisers knew it. The bankruptcy judge made statements to that fact, but to listen to the TWA pilots testify, TWA was the second coming to the airline industry. Yet they were losing money in the late 90's when everyone else was profitable.
After reading all of it, to me the TWA pilots were screwed no matter what. APA had a clause in their contract that allowed them to control the seniority list integration, and for all intents and purposes could kill the whole deal if they didn't get their way. TWA management was going to take the TWA MEC through the 1113 process and likely throw out their scope entirely if the TWA MEC didn't compromise. They were faced with either taking the deal the APA offered which gave some of the TWA guys some integration into the AMR list (and some other protections) or risking losing some/all of their protections through the 1113 process. Some of the TWA MEC, in my opinion, were quite reckless with their desire to risk the entire deal just so they could get their way. And if ALPA had said FU to the APA deal and lost, they would have been sued anyway by the TWA pilots who lost whatever integration and "gets" they otherwise would have gotten through the compromise with the APA. It's a no-win deal for the union.
Then you read on here and other forum where a bunch of these TWA guys think they're going to get some multi-billion dollar settlement. OK, the jury spoke, ALPA lost. They're going to have to pay something. But what damages do pilots from a thrice bankrupt airline, who were faced with a 1113 process that could have (and likely would have) got them nothing deserve as damages? Do TWA pilots expect damages as if they were going to leap-frog a bunch of AMR pilots on their seniority list? I mean, does anyone really think that if ALPA had only "fought harder" that the APA would have given in and allowed a bunch of pilots from a bankrupt carrier to jump ahead of them vs. just letting the deal die? Would you if you were an AMR pilot?
To me, whether I'm a biased ALPA supporter or not, its completely unrealistic for a TWA guy to expect tens of thousands of other ALPA members to pay thousands of dollars each in damages because the TWA guys chose to hitch their airline pilot career horse to a losing airline. Yup, you're owed something and the jury will decide if both sides don't agree to a settlement. But some huge billion dollar settlement? Sorry, I don't agree with that and one way or the other, ALPA members will likely not be paying it.
They're going to have to pay something. But what damages do pilots from a thrice bankrupt airline, who were faced with a 1113 process that could have (and likely would have) got them nothing deserve as damages? Do TWA pilots expect damages as if they were going to leap-frog a bunch of AMR pilots on their seniority list?.
Wrong is wrong. It is like your trying to defend someone that robbed a bank.
(The bank has been robbed 3x before, I do not think the defendant should get the normal incarceration)
Didn't a group of United pilots recently win a large settlement from ALPA?
Typical UAL guy