TWA pilots now flying for AA

[shon7]

How did they merge the seniority and the pay and aircraft flown for TWA pilots when AA acquired TWA?

Who flies what? How is seniority determined? Wasn't there any opposition to the deal itself?

 

[pilot141]

TWA pilots started earning AA Green Book pay rates on 1 Jan.
The only special thing done was to come up with a pay rate for the 717, which AA did not fly.

The AA and TWA domiciles and bid statuses are fenced for basically five years, and certain aircraft (B777, A300) are fenced from TWA guys until certain triggers happen (ie junior AA guy on list can hold that bid status).

The seniority list was merged. TWA guys were "feathered" into the AA list starting at #2571 and then 1 TWA pilot for every 8 AA pilots, until the end of the pre-merger list (April 01). The rest of the TWA guys were put at the end of that list, and the AA guys hired after April 01 were put after the TWA guys.

Disgreement? You're talking about merging a list with 14,371 people on it, many of whom have been flying for a company for 25 years or more. Yes, there are disagreements.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Hey "pilot141",

Great info on the seniority list merger.

Question: What's a T-1? You have that on your aircrarft flown list and best I can guess it's a "link trainer" or Cessna/T-41 replacement.... Please let me know what it is --- was it something from the Coast Guard inventory?????

 

[ivauir]

SUPT "heavy" trainer

T1 information

Speed-Racer, I guess it has been a while since you've flow that "USAF Junk". The T-1 is after my time too, but it is what the AF uses to train the "T Tail Mafia" (used to be BIG MAC). Herc guys go the T44 and fighter/bomber guys still do the T-38. Guys seem to like the training they get in all of these platforms, but I kinda liked the old way where we all had one common frame of referance.

 

[SpeedRacer]

"ivauir"

Thanks for the info.....

 

[pilot141]

Actually, the T-1 is just a mod that I found online for Microsoft Flight Simulator.

People claim that it is a real jet, but that it flies slow and has a good air conditioner. What they really mean is that they are sitting in front of their computer with the central air running!

 

[TWA Dude]

pilot141's description is accurate, but just for clarification the 8-1 feather resulted in appoximately 1200 (just over half) of the TWA pilots getting a seniority date of 4-10-01. It's unclear exactly what the effect of the fence provisions will be, but at this time it appears that most or our captains will keep their seat as long as they stay in STL.

Note: I present this without editorial comment.

 

[StaySeated]

Just curious, how many years did the first TWA pilot incorporated into the feather "lose"?

It sounds like a pretty poor deal for the TWA folks, and I do not want to start a long merger/buyout debate.

I guess the only brightside is that next month most of the TWA guys start getting 2nd year AA pay which is probably better than 10th year TWA pay.

Last note, TWA crews were some of the best to jumpseat with and I appreciate all the rides.

 

[MachPi]

StaySeated said:

"It sounds like a pretty poor deal for the TWA folks, and I do not want to start a long merger/buyout debate."

1. I'm sure if you asked any pre-acquisition AA pilot, they'd tell you they'd much rather the deal never have happened.

2. I don't know what the ex-TWA pilots would say, but it's dubious whether TWA would still be a viable company post 9-11.

3. The whole acquisition was a knee-jerk response to the UAL/US Air merger proposal. Now all of us are stuck with it, and I'm sure we'll all figure out how to get along eventually, because we have to.

 

[TWA Dude]

Just curious, how many years did the first TWA pilot incorporated into the feather "lose"?

The most senior pilot on on the TWA list had a hire date of 02DEC63 and his integrated DOH was 16NOV85, for a paper loss of 22 years. However he retired this past January. You see, the list was conceived around mid 2001 so many of those on it are already retired. In fact, a large number of those feathered will be retired long before they might've benefitted.

For comparison, a mid-seniorty captain hired in 1988 got a new 1999 date, for a paper loss of 11 years. The most senior guy stapled to 10APR01 is a 1989 DOH captain.

I lost two years. I can live with that, as long as I don't get furloughed.

Originally posted by MachPi
1. I'm sure if you asked any pre-acquisition AA pilot, they'd tell you they'd much rather the deal never have happened.

I don't blame you for thinking that way, but so what? We had nothing to do with it either. Your employer made a deal involving our employer and we're just pawns.

2. I don't know what the ex-TWA pilots would say, but it's dubious whether TWA would still be a viable company post 9-11.

That's a fair statement. But hey, who knows what might've happened?

3. The whole acquisition was a knee-jerk response to the UAL/US Air merger proposal. Now all of us are stuck with it, and I'm sure we'll all figure out how to get along eventually, because we have to.

You make it sound like AA bought TWA just to punish the APA. My guess is that AA bought us to make more money. Maybe it was a good business decision; maybe it wasn't. Every month AA opens hopeful new routes or frequencies and closes others that failed. These decisions affect every AA employee positively or negatively. Buying TWA was just like that. Try not to feel so bad about it. Maybe, just maybe, it'll turn out to be a good thing for AA and thus for all of us.

 

[MachPi]

>>TWA Dude:
>>You make it sound like AA bought TWA just to punish the APA. >>My guess is that AA bought us to make more money.

Of course they did; as you'll find out, AMR management doesn't do anything out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm sure TWA management was the same way.




>>TWA Dude:
>>Try not to feel so bad about it. Maybe, just maybe, it'll turn out >>to be a good thing for AA and thus for all of us.

I certainly hope that's the case, twa dude. And I'm sure we'll all muddle through this somehow. That's pragmatism; let me assure you that I don't walk around all day long tearing my hair out and moaning 'poor me.' I've got a job, which is more than I can say for a few of my friends.

Here's hoping the pie management has baked for us stays big enough for everyone to get a slice.

 

[TWA Dude]

No more TWA furloughs "planned"

Good news for all of us in this just-issued HI6:

WITH THE RECENT RULING ON AA/TWA SINGLE CARRIER STATUS AND
SUBSEQUENT SENIORITY INTEGRATION, AA WILL RECALL 208 PILOTS IN
THE NEAR FUTURE. THE QUESTION OF HOW THIS WILL AFFECT TWA HAS
BEEN RAISED BY MANY OF OUR PILOTS.
CAPTAIN KUDWA AND I FELT THE FURLOUGH OF ADDITIONAL TWA PILOTS
TO BE REPLACED BY RECALLED AA PILOTS WAS NOT THE BEST COURSE OF
ACTION FOR EITHER OPERATION. IN CONSIDERING ALL COSTS/BENEFITS,
WE WERE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE TO SENIOR AA MANAGEMENT THE BEST
OPTION WOULD BE TO RETAIN THE RECALLED AA PILOTS IN THE AA
SYSTEM WHILE PREVENTING A FURLOUGH AT TWA.
IT IS WITH GREAT PLEASURE THAT I CAN ANNOUNCE THERE ARE NO
PLANS FOR FUTURE FURLOUGHS AT TWA.
CAPTAIN TERRY TUBB
MANAGING DIRECTOR FLIGHT OPERATIONS

 

[pilot141]

Great news! I'm glad AMR decided to actually use their head and not do a 1-for-1 swap. With what I hear about TWA being short of FO's it wouldn't make any sense to furlough any more.
Despite this being forced on AMR by the supp-CC provision, it looks like it could turn out to be a no-kidding recall of furloughees, rather than just re-shuffling who is furloughed.

 

[bayoubandit]

That is great news!! I was really nervous being in the 386 that more TW folks would get the boot. I guess there is actually hope after all.

Thanks for the message TWADude!

 

[Draginass]

Don't attribute that to altruism. The operational and cost problems with doing a furlough swap were probably the driving force. This is incremental good news, but we've got a long way to go to get ALL American Airlines (that mean you too now ex-TWAers) pilots back in a cockpit and burning Jet A for fun and profit.

 

[PHX767]

I am glad that there will not be a furlough on the STL side because of our (forced) recall.

Now all I have to do is avoid getting based at LGA and life will be back to fantastic.

 

[Caveman]

"...we've got a long way to go to get ALL American Airlines (that mean you too now ex-TWAers) pilots back in a cockpit and burning Jet A for fun and profit."


Draginass,

I'm usually dogging you for one thing or another but I've got to give you kudos regarding your attitude towards the AA/TWA fiasco. I've noticed a couple of times that your posts embody the spirit of trying to heal the pilot group despite a rotten situation. Bravo Zulu.

Caveman