TSA Security Nazis At Work

[hmflyer]

Anaconda,

In my mind you missed a golden opportunity. If while going through security a screener had said out loud that there was alcohol in my bag, I would have been alcohol tested, the flight delayed, ALPA and maybe press contacted, and hopefully the screener fired.

Why would I go through this, because security is not a joke. If I or you say to somebody "I have a bomb in my bag, just kidding" what would happen. I would be arrested, fired, name all over the paper and probably a huge fine and/or jail sentence. This would be due to the zero tolerance policy.

Why should things be any different for a security screener? As we are, they should be held to a higher standard. I would have liked to have seen that screener taken to task for his remark.

 

[ShawnC]

Well another case

August 8, 2002 -- A Long Island mother is fuming that JFK Airport security guards forced her to drink her own breast milk in front of other passengers before boarding a flight.

Click the link below for the entire story.
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/54312.htm

 

[troy]

You all heard the new one about the screener that forced a mother to drink her own breast milk that was in bottles? She was carrying her child and wouldn't let her on the plane until she sampled it. Got it off the Thurs morning news, FOX I believe.

 

[ShawnC]

I have a link to the story right above yours.

 

[Typhoon1244]

RE: Breast milk

I don't have the words to tell you how badly this story honks me off! I thought it was a joke when somebody first mentioned it. If this was my wife...I'd seriously consider taking a few days off to take all the paper related to this incident and take it to Washington D.C. I'd start working up the TSA food-chain until I secured a very public apology for my wife.

AAAaaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!

How many passengers do we have to alienate before we finally get some intelligent security? Frisking pilots? Confiscating tie tacs and plastic toy swords? Mothers drinking their own breast milk?

Here's an idea: as a PIC at a Part 121 company, I'm responsible for everything related to the safety of my aircraft and its payload, right? Maybe we captains need to start observing these random screenings. I think we're well within our rights and jurisdiction to stand there and monitor these inspections. If I'd been standing there, this woman would not have had to be subjected to this humiliation.

The great thing about "zero tolerance" is that it takes ZERO BRAINS to enforce!

 

[ShawnC]

The problem is on the TSA food chain these guys are above you. Watching it will only pi$s you off more.

Heck they might even decide to give you a "random" screening right there. This people are the law unfortunately, the only way to change the law is though civil war/unrest or though congress.

Take your pick they both $uck, and either way you have a snow balls chance of getting anything done with the way things are right now.

If you are a detractor you are a terrorist and unamerican in the eyes of so many people.

Hopefully one of these days someone might relize the responsbillity that comes with PIC (even in might C150), but with the way that people drive their cars, that day may never come.

 

[Flydaplane]

I agree that there are a lot of idiots working security out there. But think about this. Do you want those idiots trying to distinguish if you really fly for a 121 carrier? Do you think they can differentiate between Osama Airlines and UAL? This is why you as a 121 pilot have to go through security. Many uniforms, ID's and crew bags have been stolen in the last year. Until ALPA gets the biometric high tech ID done and approved get used to going through screening. It doesn't do you any good to say "I'm a 121 pilot I shouldn't be subjected to this. Remember before Sept. 11, if you set off the mag you still had to empty your pockets and resolve the alarm that you set off.
Many of the screeners that are contract screeners (Huntleigh, ITS, Globe ground) still make people take their hats off. TSA screeners shouldn't do that. TSA is trying to be customer friendly and they actually get classes in how to do that (and recurrent training on a weekly basis). If you have a problem, don't make a scene at the checkpoint, seek out a supervisor and discuss it with them. Most will take action right away to correct the problem. USA today, and CNN have published lists of prohibited items. Nail files (and clippers) are not prohibited; toy guns are (they probably don't want a screener try to differentiate between the fake Glock and UZI's that are out there.
TSA has no choice on the profiling issue. Congress and Norman Mineta won't let them. Mineta was forced into a Japanese internment camp during WWII. Recently the Aviation subcommittee was discussing this and they were asking why not (hopefully they'll have the huevos to allow it--probably not though, too many ACLU lawyers out there) I think we all know who the threat is for for now, unfortunately TSA's hands are tied until Congress grants them some relief. Good news is the Loy (TSA head chief) is a lot more pro active and carrier friendly than McGaw was.
Finally like was stated earlier, the higher salaries are intended to attract higher quality people. It sound like in some areas it is working, hopefully it will at least be better than it was before.

 

[ksu_aviator]

First off, I want to go all the way back to the comment about the movie Airplane. I would say that with out a doubt Airplane is the most realistic movie about airline flying I have ever seen.

Second, TSA pay is ridiculous. I say that because of this: 9/11 happened because of the policies at the time and security lapses. As a result pilots die. So, we furlough thousands of pilots and give security a pay raise. Only in America. Do you want a Diet Coke with your Big Mac and Extra Large Fries?

 

[FlyToVegas]

9/11

KSU Aviator, I surely agree with you that the TSA folks are overpaid. But I am not sure 9/11 happened because of security lapses. I would think you can hijack a plane with a gun, a small boxcutter, or no weapon at all. What makes the difference in INTENT. Immigration has been the problem, along with enough of our society that is quick to point a finger and cry "racism," that 9/11 is what we end up with when Americans become soft and intimidated over what the minority will think of us. And we haven't learned: case in point are the terrosists being held in the camp and so many Americans fearing they are not being treated "humanely." Boo-hoo. I want to give them every civil right they themselves would afford an American citizen.

 

[Capn Lucky]

The best way we as a nation can achieve security in the skies is to let any potential perpetrator know that not only will he fail, but will probably be humilitated at the same time. I've given this subject alot of thought. Everytime I question the security checkpoints, I also ask what if...? Security before 9/11 was not smart in that it allowed blades up to 3 inches onto an aircraft. The current policy of confiscating leatherman tools from the flight crew isn't smart either.

Solutions:

Armed flight/cabin crew. This would have to be the single biggest deterrent to any potential hijacking/air rage situation.

Sky Marshalls on at least 50% of scheduled aircraft.

Profiling... yes I said profiling. Granny does not fit the profile so leave her alone unless she happens to have a machete.

Biometric screening of flight crews so we can do our jobs

A biometric frequent flier program so we can get the business flier back in the air on airlines.

The TSA is a huge improvement ovewr the contract burger flippers. They seem to be alot more on the ball. However, we need to make the system more user friendly so that we can get the industry growing again. The TSA has to realize that the problem comes from people and not from any items a person can carry. As stated earlier, many weapons can be fashioned from simple objects. We need to focus on the bad guys.

IMHO

Steve

 

[Typhoon1244]

The TSA is a huge improvement over the contract burger flippers. They seem to be alot more on the ball.

Forcing forty year old women to drink their own breast milk? We can't see your face, Capn Lucky, so tell me: are you saying that the TSA guys are more on the ball with a straight face?

We need to focus on the bad guys.

Absolutely! I couldn't agree with you more. And airline pilots, children, and forty year old lactating women are not the bad guys. If all nineteen of the hijackers had been red-headed mormons, who would we be watching carefully today? I'm sorry folks, but profiling is completely appropriate.

I gotta tell you, though, I'd much rather see the money and effort spent on biometric screening than arming pilots. If I can get to my workplace without having to be subjected to a TSA anal probe once or twice a day, that'd make me feel a lot better!

One last point: this whole discussion is probably moot. Why? Because Al Queda is not going to hit us at the airport again. Think about it. Why would they try to attack us where we're already looking...unless they just wanted to embarass the TSA?

 

[Beavis]

Someone please explain 'Biometric' screening or profiling?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Someone please explain 'Biometric' screening or profiling?

"Biometric screening" means fingerprinting, retina scans, etc. It means some way of providing positive physical identification of the individual.

"Profiling" means we start focusing our attention on 18-40 year old Arab males, as opposed to children and little old ladies.

Was locking up every Japanese-American after December 7th a good idea. No, absolutely not. Was locking up every Japanese individuals who hung around military bases with binoculars and a note pad a good idea? Yeah, probably so.

 

[Capn Lucky]

I'll rephrase myself...

The TSA is less bad than the contract screeners. I didn't think the idiots who abused that woman were TSA. My thesis is that the entire systems needs to focus on the bad guys through the CAPPS system or through profiling. The idiots who humiliated that woman need to be smacked silly regardless of who signs their paychecks.

 

[Flydaplane]

Don't assume that the screeners who made the women drink their breast milk were TSA screeners, remember there's only a few airports where the are official TSA employees (it could have been, I didn't see where it was). I think there's going to be another 30 more this month and then a bunch in Sept and Nov. After Nov they'll all be TSA screeners, unless congress changes the deadline.

 

[Rick1128]

One of my guys went to work for Atlas a couple of years ago. He has been telling me about some of the things that security is doing in MIA. Atlas being a cargo carrier, it is my understanding that the new security regs at MIA require the flight crew and any passengers be screened. In one case they had a law enforcement officer (Sky Marshall?). Security screened him, he had his Glock, vest and MP5. No problem, he had all the proper paperwork and notifications. The screener finds the officer's nail clippers, confiscates them and proceeds to dress the officer down, very verbally. The Captain who is standing in a corner watching this, starts laughing at the sheer stupidity of the situation. What happens? The Captain is arrested for interferring with the security screeners.

Another case at Atlas he told me about was the flight engineer had his leatherman confiscated as a weapon. Even after he took the screener to the cockpit ahd showed her the bright orange painted crash axe and crowbar.

But in some ways it has always been like that. Back during Desert Storm, my FO and I had our flashlight confiscated because that contained batteries. What did I do? Delayed the flight until sun up. What else could I do? My reward? A week off without pay.

Remember Senator McCarthy? Until we as an industry put our foot down, they will keep doing this stupid crap. Like Don't let common sense over-ride the rules. What can you do? Not a whole lot directly. Trip reports and the like to the Chief Pilot. If you're one of the pilots, remember, they can't leave without you. And it's a lot harder to push dodo up hill than it rolls down hill.

From what I have seen, just a few have a Rambo/Dirty Harry attitude. The majority seem to be trying to do their best with confusing rules and requirements.

But what the government should have done was put airport security in charge of the old SAC security. Never heard of anyone stealing or hijacking a loaded B52, have you?

 

[ILS JNKY]

BREAST MILK

ONLY IF SHE IS CUTE COUNT ME IN ,,, I'D TRY THAT.


IT JUST GOES TO SHOW WHY MORE AND MORE PEOPLE MAY JUST START TO LEARN TO FLY ON THERE OWN,,,,,,,,,,,,

MAKES ME GLADE TO BE A PILOT, I FLY MY SELF WHERE EVER I WANT TO GO.

 

[siedkick]

This letter to the editor in the July 22, 2002 issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology caught my eye:

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OLD BOYS AT THE TSA

James Stover's letter "Protecting Their Own?" hit the nail on the head (AW&ST July 1, p. 6)

During the past 28 years, I have been president and CEO of six Part 121 air carriers, as well as being a director of security and director of safety. I have written many CFR 49, Part 107 and 108 security manuals, ensuring compliance with the security rules for aircraft and airports.

I, too, was contacted by Korn/Ferry and told to expect a video-conference interview within two weeks. Two weeks came and went, as did several months. I kept in touch, asking why the delay? When we first spoke, my contact told me he had been instructed to concentrate on the 10 major airports and to come up with "high-profile" candidates for them so the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) could do a "dog-and-pony" show on TV regarding airport security.

The TSA did strut the first hires on TV, all high-profile but lacking any expertise with airport and/or aircraft security. My contact told me I did not fit the TSA's definition of high-profile, but after the dog-and-pony show, I would be interviewed. So I waited, waited, waited.

Eventually, my contact told me the TSA requirements had changed and Korn/Ferry was instructed to hire only politically correct "law-enforcement" applicants. The fact that their only exposure to aircraft and/or airport security was as a passenger made no difference. Finally, after I groused about the absurdity of hiring politically correct applicants, I was advised to go to Bill Rogers at the TSA regarding my application. Many unreturned Bill Rogers calls later, I gave up.

The salary is too much for the politically connected to resist, particularly if they are already receiving a federal pension. Stover is correct. The oldboy network is working perfectly, with no care that these friends have zero aviation security experience.

Robert P. Fleming
Tucson, Ariz.

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[V1Cutt]

I have tons of stories from security checkpoints in the last year, but the most recent (and in the top 3 of stupidity) was the dog I saw being wanded in TPA last week - Al Qaeda Poodle, I believe.

 

[dispatchguy]

Whenever I get stopped at the checkpoint now, I assume the same demeanor that I remember the Persian Gulf War POWs took during their videotaped "confessions" - an emotionless, monotone in my voice. I look straight ahead, I do not make eye contact at all, unless they seem like that they are actually being courteous and professional.

I experienced the TSA Nazi's at work in CMH last week, and it seemed to me to be the same-ole-same-ole. Lotsa grandmas getting stopped, when Abdul-al-Jaber-Al Ahmed al-yayayayayayaya (or the local 7-11 owner) walked right on by. I will admit, however, it was nice to at least not see a bunch of people working on a green card.

Anyone get the new TSA Groin Check yet? You beep, they wand you, make you undo your belt (I always take mine off before the checkpoint), you show them the back of your buckle, then they want you to undo your pants slightly so they can see the back of your zipper/snap/fastener area. Saw a couple of people in CMH nearly blowing a vessel with that one - and the TSANazi never offered a private screening.

Yes, the morons are running the show...