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TSA Security Nazis At Work

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Oh brother:rolleyes: In reality what's happening is guys like him are getting the fifth degree, while the real perps are keeping their mouths shut and strolling right on by.......
 
That scene in the movie Airplane really was prophetic, where guys are walking through the metal detector with recoiless rifles and RPGs, and nothing happens, but a little old lady gets thrown up against the wall.

Several weeks ago, a woman had a page from a catalog confiscated by airport security. She was shopping for a gift, and had found a set of steak knives that she wanted to order. The folks in security took the page WITH THE PICTURE OF THE KNIVES! Hello, McFly...Hello!...Anybody Home?
 
Sickening

Sickening.

Just watching CNN. The report on the TSA's new screeners. In Chicago, Boston, and Washington these men and women earn $35,000 a year to start.

As a regional airline first officer, I make $20/hr or, a little less than $20,000 a year.

They earn over $15000/yr MORE than I do. Their job? Apparently molesting elderly women, little children, and flight crews -- and determining flight-crew sobriety of course.

Something is wrong. Where is the ALPA leadership??
 
Guys,

Just came thru LGA where I witnessed a couple of searches in the gate area. I must say that my first impression with these TSA screeners is a step in the right direction. They looked like people who knew what they were doing. Moreover, they were polite to the passengers that they were screening. Lets face it--if these folks can get the job done (make sure our planes have no one wishing to do us harm on them) and can make pax security more timely, Id say theyre doing a good job which means pax will keep coming back which means you and me and everyone else in commercial aviation will have flying jobs. Only time will tell.

Now, it may just be me, but some of you guys may want to give this latest step a chance before you pass judgment on the entire program.
 
I went through JFK and MCO this weekend and was almost impressed by the TSA people. They were efficient and polite. I was able to get a nice contrast between the old and the new when a private security guy would not let me bring my crew bag to the gate because is was ever so slightly larger than the template thingie at his post. He informed me that it was an FAA reg. I asked which one and he was stumped. Since I was on a ticket and not in the mood for a cavity search, I checked the bag. I could not walk away without telling him he's an idiot, squarely to his face. The TSA guys agreed.

I'm happy for the changes, but they still need to leave old people and children alone.
 
I sure hope that the increase in pay for these people results in an increase in the quality of the product, because there are some very serious inconsistencies that continue to make us vulnerable.

Here are just a few that I've noticed recently.

1. How is it that the hundreds of ATL based flight crews that report to work every day and are not screened because they are fully credentialed employees can fly to say DFW and enter the sterile or SIDA area where the same companie's flight crews are being given the third degree and sending their shoes through the x-ray machine to get to the same area?

2. Why are fingernail clipper nail files being confiscated when in the last 48 hours I passed through the screening areas at DFW,XNA, and ATL while non revving with several metal hangers in my garment bag that in a matter of minutes with a bit of duct tape and yankee ingenuity could have been fashioned into enough shanks to arm the entire airplane?

3. The other day I was passing through the DFW checkpoint with my hat in hand because for some reason they wanted to see it done that way and managed yet again to not set off the metal detector. Emboldened by this I asked the screener, achnad, why my hat needed to be in hand rather than on my head where the company prefers it to be. He responded that they had to see if anything was inside of it. OK I said, but did I not just go through the metal detector without setting it off? Yes he replied, but they have to look anyway. I then asked why they did not look inside of our socks, underwear, or other body cavities that could hide something if that was the logic behind the policy. He stared blankly back at me while I smiled and waved at an ATL based flight crew who was sauntering past on a break between flights!
 
Those stupid retards for TSA are even more pathetic than ITS or Argenbrite ever was!!!!!


Especially at T-5 at ORD...But what do you expect when the federal government is running the operation? Not a single person at the checkpoint has an IQ higher than room temperature!!!
 
Hey everyone,

You should be discrete about anything associated with Security. It is a sensitive subject and should be given some respect. These people are just doing what they were trained to do and they are not able to defend themselves because they have sworn to keep their mouths shut about anything associated with their jobs. Contrary to popular belief they have a VERY important job.

As for pointing out precise flaws, that should be pointed out to the responsible party or their superiors not spread on a message board that anyone can read. You never know who is reading these posts!!! I am not trying to flame anyone here, but some of these posts lately are too descriptive. CONFIDENTIALITY is a must in this industry. Let's make it impossible for a terrorist to find out our procedures.

I know it looks ridiculous what has been done at some of these checkpoints, but you can never be too careful. The press is the worst about jacking their jaws about flaws in the system, but they are ususally very ill-informed so there is usually very little valuable info that they leak out.

Fly Safe,
Profjetpilot
 
mtp2atp at least you get to carry your hat instead of putting it in the machine to be crushed by bags...

and check this out...in mco yesterday as i was going through security it was taking forever for the bags to go through the x-ray machine. the screener turned to me and said "it must be because of all that alcohol you have in your bag"...ha ha...

nothwithstanding that little remark, things are running a lot better in mco then they were a week or so ago. however, i noticed they got rid of the "badged employees only" line, which they never used anyway...
 
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Anaconda said:
In mco yesterday as i was going through security it was taking forever for the bags to go through the x-ray machine. The screener turned to me and said "it must be because of all that alcohol you have in your bag"
Click to expand...

Holy cow!

You reported to this, right? You informed your captain and chief pilot and requested a test, right? Tell me you didn't let this little s.o.b. get away with a crack like that in front of other people! If that happened in DFW I'd be on the cellphone to (1) my chief pilot, (2) the GSC, (3) my ALPA rep., and (4) my lawyer on the spot!
 
i must confess that in my haste to get to work i blew off his comment with a nasty look. i was the only other person that heard it. i know it wasn't the best thing to do, and i do regret not doing something to square this guy away...

where did you fly the uh-60a???
 
Anaconda said:
Where did you fly the UH-60A???
Click to expand...

I was the only avionics tech. in the 62nd MED BN with a commercial pilots license...and I was applying for WOFT...every now and then the guys in the unit would give me some stick time on test flights. (I wish it was official!)

Not being a ture rotor-head, I thought the Blackhawk was great! I've been on unicycles that handled better than the Huey!
 
At what point does the treatment of us as professionals by the TSA become harrassment? I was jumpseating the other day and was a selectee. (As always with this airline) I have never become angry about this inconvenience because hey, I am getting a free ride that I am very grateful for. However, this particular day I was subjected to the new and improved, TSA. Well, by the time I got out of that little square, I was ready to walk to work the next time. This guy was treating me with the least of respect and was ordering me around like I was a suspect in a brutal crime. Sit down, spread your legs, I didn't say you could touch that bag yet, show me the bottom of your feet, ect, ect. In addition, he treated my personal belongings, ie flight bag and overnighter, like it was made of titanium. Ripping zippers open, ruffing up my neatly packed bag and just plainly not caring what it was like when he was done. To say the least, I came out of there furious. Luckily, I kept my cool and didn't say a whole lot at the time. Be careful guys and gals, I think the recent events involving alcohol and the new job in general has given some of these guys a preceived increased level of power.....

Stick-N
 
My Compliments, Side Stick-n, and congratulations. I'm deeply impressed you kept your cool through that experience. I'd have calmly asked to see the guys supervisor...even if it meant missing the flight (can you tell I don't commute)...and simply told the supervisor that the guy is rude and needed an attitude adjustment.

Here's my story. I was in Jackson, Miss., a few days after September 11th. I don't know what I was expecting as far as security. What I was not expecting was to be stripped/frisked within an inch of my life by four elderly women while passengers whisked through almost effortlessly. Now remember, this was less than 72 hours after the twin-towers fell, and I was very concerned about security. When there were no pax around, I told these women they were wasting my time and doing my passengers little good by harassing crewmembers while letting passengers carry-on bags go through with only a cursory search.

By the time we got to the gate, FBI Special Agent Jeffrey Artis was waiting for us. He told me if I caused any more trouble, he would take me away in handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit.

In retrospect, I can see that pointing out procedural defficiencies to screeners is pointless, but like I said, I was under the impression at the time that as a Part 121 P.I.C., I could have some effect on security issues related to my aircraft and passengers. I wasn't aware that I was the one who needed to be carefully screened and scrutinized. All this time I thought it was the FBI who had screwed up on 9/11. How silly of me!

S.A. Artis caught me off guard, and I said nothing in my defense. He whirled on his heel and marched away, saying, "I hope you have a better day than you've been having." (A__hole!) I vowed then and there never to let a secutiry official get away with treating me or any of my crew that way again.

The more we roll over and take it, the more they'll give us.

P.S. Artis threatened to contact my chief pilot. I beat him too it; they were as pissed off about it as I was.
 
Relate my experience in Orlando on Monday....

Wearing a t-shirt and blue jeans and an aviation baseball cap. My belt sets off the alarm. Get the wand job, etc. All the TSA security folks are very friendly. Run my hat through the conveyor belt. Something goes wrong (not related to my hat). Have to wait a couple of minutes. The guy hands me my hat and keeps apologizing for having me wait maybe two minutes. I had my "no big deal" look on my face. Off to my side some poor FO is getting the full treatment.

On another note, there was also a young boy in my line who was wearing a pirate's costume obviously from one of his tourist visitations. They took away his plastic sword even after examining it to determine it was indeed plastic. Felt bad for the little kid. I speculate he didn't understand.

Seems like with the government, we have to check our brains at the door. Realize it makes it easier for the security people in that they don't have to think.
 
Super Geniuses

We had a Captain who had his tie tack confiscated in SEA. The reason they took his tie tack you ask? Well it was about as big as a dime and it was in the shape of a pistol! The woman (super geniuse) said that it could be a weapon and nothing resembling a pistol could pass through security.
Another option is that I heard the tie tack was made of gold... but the Captain actually got it back several days later. Makes me wonder or at least hope that she was trying to steal a gold tie tack rather than honestly think it was a weapon (functioning pistol).

So, tie tacks that are in the shape of a pistol can some how be turned into functioning revolvers... What about those X-military guys I see every day with F-16's and F-15's as tie tacks? A 30MM cannon and a couple of side winders makes a pretty serious weapon when wore properly on one's tie.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine... Heaven help us survive the brain dead society in which we live.
 
AK737FO,

Haven't you seen Maguiver? You can take anything, and add a paper clip and you can get a functioning weapon. It has to be true it was on TV. :)
 
security nazis???

I was flying out of gsp the other day when a young kid came up to us and demanded that he see out IDs. We asked who he was and wanted to see his ID. He didn't have one and tried to explain that he was new. We blew him off and walked around him and he didn't even try to stop us. He just stood there. I really feel safe with people like that watching the security check points. It seems that everywhere you go there are either young kids or old women working these security checks. WHAT A JOKE!! I have carried a leatherman tool in my flight bag for over a year and no one has caught it going through security yet. I will feel a lot safer when I have a Colt 45 strapped to my side in a shoulder holster while I am flying. Try and take my plane with a 4 inch hole in your chest!!!
 
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Anaconda,

In my mind you missed a golden opportunity. If while going through security a screener had said out loud that there was alcohol in my bag, I would have been alcohol tested, the flight delayed, ALPA and maybe press contacted, and hopefully the screener fired.

Why would I go through this, because security is not a joke. If I or you say to somebody "I have a bomb in my bag, just kidding" what would happen. I would be arrested, fired, name all over the paper and probably a huge fine and/or jail sentence. This would be due to the zero tolerance policy.

Why should things be any different for a security screener? As we are, they should be held to a higher standard. I would have liked to have seen that screener taken to task for his remark.
 
You all heard the new one about the screener that forced a mother to drink her own breast milk that was in bottles? She was carrying her child and wouldn't let her on the plane until she sampled it. Got it off the Thurs morning news, FOX I believe.
 
I have a link to the story right above yours.
 
RE: Breast milk

I don't have the words to tell you how badly this story honks me off! I thought it was a joke when somebody first mentioned it. If this was my wife...I'd seriously consider taking a few days off to take all the paper related to this incident and take it to Washington D.C. I'd start working up the TSA food-chain until I secured a very public apology for my wife.

AAAaaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!

How many passengers do we have to alienate before we finally get some intelligent security? Frisking pilots? Confiscating tie tacs and plastic toy swords? Mothers drinking their own breast milk?

Here's an idea: as a PIC at a Part 121 company, I'm responsible for everything related to the safety of my aircraft and its payload, right? Maybe we captains need to start observing these random screenings. I think we're well within our rights and jurisdiction to stand there and monitor these inspections. If I'd been standing there, this woman would not have had to be subjected to this humiliation.

The great thing about "zero tolerance" is that it takes ZERO BRAINS to enforce!
 
The problem is on the TSA food chain these guys are above you. Watching it will only pi$s you off more.

Heck they might even decide to give you a "random" screening right there. This people are the law unfortunately, the only way to change the law is though civil war/unrest or though congress.

Take your pick they both $uck, and either way you have a snow balls chance of getting anything done with the way things are right now.

If you are a detractor you are a terrorist and unamerican in the eyes of so many people.

Hopefully one of these days someone might relize the responsbillity that comes with PIC (even in might C150), but with the way that people drive their cars, that day may never come.
 
I agree that there are a lot of idiots working security out there. But think about this. Do you want those idiots trying to distinguish if you really fly for a 121 carrier? Do you think they can differentiate between Osama Airlines and UAL? This is why you as a 121 pilot have to go through security. Many uniforms, ID's and crew bags have been stolen in the last year. Until ALPA gets the biometric high tech ID done and approved get used to going through screening. It doesn't do you any good to say "I'm a 121 pilot I shouldn't be subjected to this. Remember before Sept. 11, if you set off the mag you still had to empty your pockets and resolve the alarm that you set off.
Many of the screeners that are contract screeners (Huntleigh, ITS, Globe ground) still make people take their hats off. TSA screeners shouldn't do that. TSA is trying to be customer friendly and they actually get classes in how to do that (and recurrent training on a weekly basis). If you have a problem, don't make a scene at the checkpoint, seek out a supervisor and discuss it with them. Most will take action right away to correct the problem. USA today, and CNN have published lists of prohibited items. Nail files (and clippers) are not prohibited; toy guns are (they probably don't want a screener try to differentiate between the fake Glock and UZI's that are out there.
TSA has no choice on the profiling issue. Congress and Norman Mineta won't let them. Mineta was forced into a Japanese internment camp during WWII. Recently the Aviation subcommittee was discussing this and they were asking why not (hopefully they'll have the huevos to allow it--probably not though, too many ACLU lawyers out there) I think we all know who the threat is for for now, unfortunately TSA's hands are tied until Congress grants them some relief. Good news is the Loy (TSA head chief) is a lot more pro active and carrier friendly than McGaw was.
Finally like was stated earlier, the higher salaries are intended to attract higher quality people. It sound like in some areas it is working, hopefully it will at least be better than it was before.
 
First off, I want to go all the way back to the comment about the movie Airplane. I would say that with out a doubt Airplane is the most realistic movie about airline flying I have ever seen.

Second, TSA pay is ridiculous. I say that because of this: 9/11 happened because of the policies at the time and security lapses. As a result pilots die. So, we furlough thousands of pilots and give security a pay raise. Only in America. Do you want a Diet Coke with your Big Mac and Extra Large Fries?
 
9/11

KSU Aviator, I surely agree with you that the TSA folks are overpaid. But I am not sure 9/11 happened because of security lapses. I would think you can hijack a plane with a gun, a small boxcutter, or no weapon at all. What makes the difference in INTENT. Immigration has been the problem, along with enough of our society that is quick to point a finger and cry "racism," that 9/11 is what we end up with when Americans become soft and intimidated over what the minority will think of us. And we haven't learned: case in point are the terrosists being held in the camp and so many Americans fearing they are not being treated "humanely." Boo-hoo. I want to give them every civil right they themselves would afford an American citizen.
 
The best way we as a nation can achieve security in the skies is to let any potential perpetrator know that not only will he fail, but will probably be humilitated at the same time. I've given this subject alot of thought. Everytime I question the security checkpoints, I also ask what if...? Security before 9/11 was not smart in that it allowed blades up to 3 inches onto an aircraft. The current policy of confiscating leatherman tools from the flight crew isn't smart either.

Solutions:

Armed flight/cabin crew. This would have to be the single biggest deterrent to any potential hijacking/air rage situation.

Sky Marshalls on at least 50% of scheduled aircraft.

Profiling... yes I said profiling. Granny does not fit the profile so leave her alone unless she happens to have a machete.

Biometric screening of flight crews so we can do our jobs

A biometric frequent flier program so we can get the business flier back in the air on airlines.

The TSA is a huge improvement ovewr the contract burger flippers. They seem to be alot more on the ball. However, we need to make the system more user friendly so that we can get the industry growing again. The TSA has to realize that the problem comes from people and not from any items a person can carry. As stated earlier, many weapons can be fashioned from simple objects. We need to focus on the bad guys.

IMHO

Steve
 
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