Trs855

westwind driver

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If you were the Captain or F.O. on Airtran's Monday, June 27th, flight 855 service from MSP to ATL, or if you possibly know who the pilots may have been or how to forward this information to them, please do so.

The Citrus flight taxied out Monday morning from the gate at around 10:00am central time. In the process the captain darted out in front of our westwind without giving way. We were taxing from his right to his left, perpendicular and had the complete right-of-way. We were subsequently cut-off as airtran taxied past us from left to right and on to the runway.

There are more details and unprofessional over-the-radio remarks from Airtran 855, but I don't see the need in sharing this information with this forum board.

I would like to discuss the entire incident with the captain. He gave his name and hometown but who has pen/paper handy to write down such things? I write notes on TOLD cards and didn't have enought space to write his name etc. Besides it was busy/congested on the ground and radio and I had more important things to do.

If anyone has a phone number for either the chief pilot, asst. chief pilot, safety training pilot(s) or whoever would be able to speak about this matter, please PM me with that info, or post it here.

Thank you.
 

mwmav8r01

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I had a problem with a TRS guy the other day out of tampa. Oh well, we all have bad days. Right?
 

westwind driver

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Newjetjockey said:
Why don't you go cry to the FAA?
Why would I do that? Airtran was unprofessional, as is your attitude. Your screen-name is an indication of your attitude. Just an educated guess, but I'd say you're pretty errogant, Mr. Jet Jock you are.

The real issue is not about who was in the right, but about the lack of professionalism on the part of the Citrus pilot who made the "quit your bitching, we got our clearance to taxi" comment over the radio.

There was a safety concern there as well. Maybe if he is willing to dart out in front of other aircraft actively taxiing, then he may be an unprofessional "JetJock" such as yourself, in which case IMHO he should seek employment in a career field without safety concerns and priorities.
 

westwind driver

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mwmav8r01 said:
I had a problem with a TRS guy the other day out of tampa. Oh well, we all have bad days. Right?

Very true. But I have never chewed anyone out over the radio with a cock-strong F/U attitude. "Quit your bitching, we got our clearance to taxi." is HIGHLY unprofessional, and the incident as a whole raises safety related concerns with me.

He could have at least apologized after it happened and I wouldn't be discussing the issue here.
 

whoknows

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I think your probably upset that his is bigger than yours......
 

FL717

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westwind driver said:
The real issue is not about who was in the right, but about the lack of professionalism on the part of the Citrus pilot who made the "quit your bitching, we got our clearance to taxi" comment over the radio.
You don't know how to pursue this? How long have you been a Captain... Captain?

So... basically your feelings got hurt..... and your answer to this is for you to go on a public bulletin board, give only enough details to incriminate, and then look for others to offer moral support and do the legwork in your witch hunt..... a witch hunt that you elected not to bother to pursue YOURSELF on June 27 at KMSP.... WHEN IT HAPPENED.

Since you elected to drop the whole issue on June 27th at MSP, and yet pursue it publically here....... I'm inclined to just let YOU do your own legwork..... Captain.

BTW - Your incident involved a B-717... so I'm obviously not the person(s) you're looking for..... in case you're wondering..... but hey... good luck..... sounds like you have a long hard career ahead.
 
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Spud

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I looked it up... and the Capt. on 855 was a check airman and quite possibly the most gregarious and easy going pilot here at airtransam.

If this guy gave you shiot on the radio, then you must have really focked up.

I don't know you or what happened, but I do know this guy, and if I get a vote- it's with him.

Hate to think about what would've happened if it was me!!
 

Newjetjockey

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Maybe its just me but I don't remember ever reading an FAR about right of way when taxing. I thought you were supposed to do what ground cleared you to do. If his comment which was so inapropriate was that he had a clearance, it sounds to me like he had the right of way. It has been a long time since I have read the FARs so if there is one that states that the plane to your left or right has right of way please let me know. Maybe you should tell us what your "professional" comment was when he "darted" out in front of you.

As for my screen name, it was the first thing that came to mind. Sorry if it makes me sound like such an "errogant" a$$ like you claim. Maybe I will change it so you will like me better. Jeez. By the way, learn to spell.
 

KeroseneSnorter

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Westwind,

Dunno what happened, but if you get all wound up everytime something doesn't go exactly right in the aviation world you are headed straight for a corinary at a young age.

Mistakes and miscues happen when you are moving metal around the sky (or ground), When a miscue happens, you adapt and modify to make it work.....that is why there is a judgment box on the checkride form.

Relax a little bit, you will enjoy this career much more.
 

crosscut

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If you think your request is any more professional than the types of replies you’ve received, you're the one who needs to “seek a different career.” Dim wit, another NEWSFLASH: this public forum is not a venue for resolving safety violations and if you would easily “let it go IF he apologized for the perceived gross safety violation,” there you have yet another indication of your power trip… and a green one, at best, because safety violations require more than an apology to the aggrieved. Your lack of experience is also showing through most of your rant but especially when you start asking for the training dept's/chief pilot’s phone numbers. Lastly, lack of professionalism is not the same as violating an FAR since you indiscriminately continue referring to both throughout. “QUIT YOUR BITCHING!”



P.S. while we’re on the subject of right-of-ways at controlled airports, was it a 4-way stop intersection or 2-way and whose light was red, you Mr. Professional? I hope & prey (yeah, right!) I don’t get my screen name “constructively” scutinized by some #erk-off westwind driver.
 

FN FAL

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westwind driver said:
I write notes on TOLD cards and didn't have enought space to write his name etc. Besides it was busy/congested on the ground and radio and I had more important things to do.

Thank you.
you should have TOLD yourself to "go frolic off".

In all actuallity, it works out better that way...at least according to "Occam's Razor".
 

Palomino

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if it upsets you that you were cut off then i would suggest another career field. taxiing an airplane at a busy airport demands the most from your DEFENSIVE driving skills. go slow and when you hit the brakes it won't be a big deal.

remember mistakes are made by all of us in the controlled chaos of an airline terminal operation. pilots, controllers, ground crew, etc are all responsible for safety. i've yielded to the mistakes of others many times and they have done the same for me. i'm guessing i'm sitting about even or slightly in debt for my errors through the years.

don't take offense. be a PROFESSIONAL and move on. it won't be the last time you will be 'cut off'. maybe next time it will be something a bit smaller than what you are driving and you won't get the wrong impression.
 

capt. megadeth

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Waaaaaaaaaaaa, let's go tell on eachother.

Big baby
 

westwind driver

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FL717 said:
You don't know how to pursue this? How long have you been a Captain... Captain?

So... basically your feelings got hurt..... and your answer to this is for you to go on a public bulletin board, give only enough details to incriminate, and then look for others to offer moral support and do the legwork in your witch hunt..... a witch hunt that you elected not to bother to pursue YOURSELF on June 27 at KMSP.... WHEN IT HAPPENED.

Since you elected to drop the whole issue on June 27th at MSP, and yet pursue it publically here....... I'm inclined to just let YOU do your own legwork..... Captain.

BTW - Your incident involved a B-717... so I'm obviously not the person(s) you're looking for..... in case you're wondering..... but hey... good luck..... sounds like you have a long hard career ahead.
Whats with this captain, captain crap? So you're a captain. I know F/Os who are better pilots, and have more experience, but are forced to fly with cruddy captains, just because the captain has been with the company longer. Bad way to promote shootty pilots if you ask me.

Anyway.....

You ever stop to think that the captain and I did pursue this on the 27th. Not only have we spoken to the tower watch superviser who was on during the shift, and the ground controller who was working south ground at that time, but they also pulled the radio tape and sent a copy of it, starting time 10 seconds before airtran's call for taxi up to us asking for the controller's operating initials and the watch supervisor's desk number.

So why don't you put your foot back in your mouth?

Also, we are following this up not because we got our feelings hurt, but because what the captain did was UNSAFE. Maybe you don't consider safety #1 when you fly? I guess you just wanna get there, on time.

Don't make any comments unless they are intelligent and actually have some useful information or can help someone. No need to pipe in and be a dick just to be a dick.
 
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westwind driver

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Newjetjockey said:
Maybe its just me but I don't remember ever reading an FAR about right of way when taxing. I thought you were supposed to do what ground cleared you to do. If his comment which was so inapropriate was that he had a clearance, it sounds to me like he had the right of way. It has been a long time since I have read the FARs so if there is one that states that the plane to your left or right has right of way please let me know. Maybe you should tell us what your "professional" comment was when he "darted" out in front of you.

As for my screen name, it was the first thing that came to mind. Sorry if it makes me sound like such an "errogant" a$$ like you claim. Maybe I will change it so you will like me better. Jeez. By the way, learn to spell.
We were told to continue our taxi, before airtran was given his taxi clearance. He came off the terminal ramp and simply dart out in front of us. Clearly he was trying to get out from the ramp without having to stop and wait for us to go by.

I know things happen, blah blah blah, but what is wrong with holding people accountable for their actions?

Based from what I have heard from other's replying to this, most pilots feel they make mistakes, but it's quite allright so long as no one gets hurt. Wrong kind of attitude to have if you ask me. Passivity towards safety and other's intentions is not a good way to operate.

I also get the impression that airline pilot's are above reproach. I know this is not the case with the entire airline industry, but that is the impression I get from this forum.

As for asking for the Chief Pilot's office number, that is generally considered public information, which I can get from corporate headquarters. I just couldn't find a good number for Airtran's Home Office at MCO, despite the 5 numbers 411 gave me. I didn't bother looking on their website.

As for learning to spell, typos and mis-spellings are common, and I don't proof-read internet posts. Do you?
 

FL717

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westwind driver said:
Whats with this captain, captain crap? So you're a captain. I know F/Os who are better pilots, and have more experience, but are forced to fly with cruddy captains, just because the captain has been with the company longer. Bad way to promote shootty pilots if you ask me.

Anyway.....

You ever stop to think that the captain and I did pursue this on the 27th. Not only have we spoken to the tower watch superviser who was on during the shift, and the ground controller who was working south ground at that time, but they also pulled the radio tape and sent a copy of it, starting time 10 seconds before airtran's call for taxi up to us asking for the controller's operating initials and the watch supervisor's desk number.

So why don't you put your foot back in your mouth?

Also, we are following this up not because we got our feelings hurt, but because what the captain did was UNSAFE. Maybe you don't consider safety #1 when you fly? I guess you just wanna get there, on time.

Don't make any comments unless they are intelligent and actually have some useful information or can help someone. No need to pipe in and be a dick just to be a dick.
LOL!

There is so much I could respond to in your hysterical rant above..... but I think simply quoting your illustrious post speaks all the volume I need to make my point about you. Your choice of insults speaks volumes about you... LOL!

You may want to re-read my original reply... and then rethink your stupid reply to me. You are showing the same attention deficit reaction to this thread that you obviously showed on the ground in KMSP on 27 June.

I will add one quick and FINAL comment to this thread you foolishly started and even more ridiculously have continued to respond to.... and that is this:

I bring up the fact that the assumption was that you are a Captain because of your agressive assertiveness to this ridiculous situation.... and to illustrate your role in this thread that YOU started.

Your decision to start this thread, AND respond to the opinions here highlights to me that you are an immature person who has yet to show the ability to respond to this incident in a professional, responsible, and appropriate way.... either here on these forums or any other means..... and that speaks volumes about your ability as a Pilot..... and probably indicates what took place in your mind in KMSP.

You are too emotionally wound up about this and maybe you SHOULD let the Captain on the flight handle this. My hope would be that they will demonstrate better judgement than you have shown.

Since you are "pursueing this" through ATC..... then why the need to drag this through the mud publically here on Flightinfo???

Let me take a stab at the answer to this hypothetical question:

Because your feelings got hurt and you are a tightwound immature napoleon that likes to get even.

Grow up.....
 
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westwind driver

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FL717 said:
LOL!

There is so much I could respond to in your hysterical rant above..... but I think simply quoting your illustrious post speaks all the volume I need to make my point about you. Your choice of insults speaks volumes about you... LOL!

You may want to re-read my original reply... and then rethink your stupid reply to me. You are showing the same attention deficit reaction to this thread that you obviously showed on the ground in KMSP on 27 June.

I will add one quick and FINAL comment to this thread you foolishly started and even more ridiculously have continued to respond to.... and that is this:

I bring up the fact that the assumption was that you are a Captain because of your agressive assertiveness to this ridiculous situation.... and to illustrate your role in this thread that YOU started.

Your decision to start this thread, AND respond to the opinions here highlights to me that you are an immature person who has yet to show the ability to respond to this incident in a professional, responsible, and appropriate way.... either here on these forums or any other means..... and that speaks volumes about your ability as a Pilot..... and probably indicates what took place in your mind in KMSP.

You are too emotionally wound up about this and maybe you SHOULD let the Captain on the flight handle this. My hope would be that they will demonstrate better judgement than you have shown.

Since you are "pursueing this" through ATC..... then why the need to drag this through the mud publically here on Flightinfo???

Let me take a stab at the answer to this hypothetical question:

Because your feelings got hurt and you are a tightwound immature napoleon that likes to get even.

Grow up.....
This is my last post to this thread.

1st:
There was not any intention of getting anyone in trouble. Nor was there any intention of dragging anyone else through the mud.

2nd:
I may not be the Captain, however after telling him about this message board and forum, I suggested we post a question of "What's Airtran's Number?" He gave me the green light and here we are, completely off subject thanks in-part to comments and remarks made by people who had nothing intelligent to say.

3rd:
My Captain has spoken with Airtran's Chief Pilot, and is awaiting a phone call from the Captain.

4th:
ATC at MSP was contacted because the ground controller thought we were asking who had the right of way in an attempt to chew him out. We asked for the controllers operating initials over the radio and the tower number so that we could clarify to him that we were not blaming him for what Airtran did. He kept apologizing over the radio thinking it was his fault.

5th:
My only involvement over the radio was when we stopped to let Airtran go by.
I asked the controller who had the right-of-way while taxiing. My captain took it from there, and was more than professional.

Finally, I may have given too much info in the original post about what happend. Maybe I should have just said I experienced an incident with an Airtran crew and who can I speak with. But, instead of either shaking your head, laughing at it, or just plain ignoring and not responding to the post, the idiots come out of the woodwork to make an attempt at belittling someone, making stupid, non-related remarks and comments.

If I'm foolish to continue to reply to this forum, then what does that make you for replying in the first place? I don't get it. You think it was dumb for me to post my question with a few details, but instead of thinking it you have to share your trash thoughts with everybody else.

It's so simple. No matter what you think of me or what your opinion is, if you don't have the answer, or don't have useful information I can use as I was asking for, THEN DONT FREAKING REPLY. It just makes you look like a jerk, giving someone else a hard time.

Oh, but now you're gonna come back saying my feelings are hurt. Whatever, people like you and the above mentioned must have too much time on their hands to worry about what others do and make comments on top. What really makes it bad is when they make incorrect assumptions based off of their perception and opinion, and they think they know exactly what happened when they have no factual knowledge of the event in question.

FL717 said:
...this incident in a professional, responsible, and appropriate way.... either here on these forums or any other means..... and that speaks volumes about your ability as a Pilot..... and probably indicates what took place in your mind in KMSP.
A good example of what I am saying. You have a perceived conception about the way the incident happened, what communication has taken place betweeb the involved parties since and the outcome. Non of which really is your business. You have another conception about how it should have been handled (this is the way I would have done it, AKA my opinion) I don't give 2 figs about your opinion.

Also, thinking along those lines you make the accusation that I am not a professional and responsible pilot, and that your interpretation is that I apparently have a mental illness, because somehow my brain warped what really happened right?

Again, if you weren't there and involved, what makes you think you know what went down during and after?

And if you've never flown with me, how do know know what my piloting skills are or aren't, both mechanically flying and judgement making? I don't think you can make that determination based off of your reading someone else's writing.

So, I have nothing further to say. If you think this reply is unprofessional; well,.. good for you. If you think I should never have posted in the first place; well,.. good for you.

What you think is what you think, so,............ good for you.
 

NAA Pilot

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Westwind:


You and your captain need to do some serious growing up!
 
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