Trouble with PAX

[earhart]

We had a Moscow-London trip over Xmas with important clients as PAX. While they were not officially interfering with the crew they were drunk and very disorderely and really troublesome for our FA. We are a major corp and these are important clients- my question is- should I report the actions of these idiots to the top brass or leave well alone?

 

[SCT]

Boy, that is a tough situation. Will you be flying the paxs, again? Could you tell the CP and then let him make the decision to tell or not tell the top brass. What were the paxs doing?

 

[Stealthh21]

At the very least talk to your CP or DO. If you don't have to fly them again that you know of, I would leave it alone. But at least if you tell someone, if the time comes that you have to fly them again, you and everyone else will be prepared. If they are trouble on the way back, and you make it all the way to the drop off, I would tell your higher ups to never accept a trip for them ever again. If you have to land early it will pan out on its own. Who cares how important the client is. If they endanger the flight they are hardly worth it.

Just my opinion.

 

[earhart]

My co- Cap and I told the CP in detail but he has left it up to us if we wish to take it further. The guys were really drunk, running round the cabin, throwing food, making sexual remarks to the FA (although no touching) and generally being obnoxious. Drunk is no excuse but they are important for the company.

 

[earhart]

PS Our FA was in tears after the flight but values her job too much to complain. I said I would support her but she has decided to leave it and call in sick if called to fly with them again.

 

[skiandsurf]

PS Our FA was in tears after the flight but values her job too much to complain. I said I would support her but she has decided to leave it and call in sick if called to fly with them again.

You need to document this, so if it happens again (maybe another crew) there is already a written complaint. It might have just been an isolated event, but still talk to someone and get it documented.

 

[filejw]

Sounds like your CP is a real leader.Those guys (pax) sound like the type that need to be confronted in the parking lot. By the way in my experience the people at the very top of your company don't want your FA sexually harassed in the work place.Just ask your legal department.

 

[earhart]

Thanks for all he advice/replies. Our corp is a large one and any negative publicity might reach the press- I am not afraid of reporting but written complaints go up the chain and may cause a real big problem. Although I did ask the passengers to behave it is the FA who suffered the most and I would need her support to continue. It is a tough situation.

 

[momalley81]

Were there any other representatives of your company on board?

While I don't have any experience with this sort of thing in a corporate flight department environment, if you strip that away, and take it on its face what they did-

They were abusing one of your employees. They were taking damaging company equipment. They were diplaying a total lack of respect for your company, it's assets and employees. If this occured not in the cabin of the company jet, but in a board room would it be appropriate? Or if they treated a female executive like that at a golf outing? Or even the receptionist? Hell no! So why is it ok to do it to a company FA?

I don't know what level employees they are with your client, but at the very least I'm sure THEIR bosses would like to know how they respect other companies.

A good manager looks out for those underneath them, and their department. They abused your FA and reduced her to tears. I think you owe it to her to bring this incident to your boss's attention; leave it up to them if they want to persue this further. If she's afraid of losing her job, then cover for her. Tell them she didn't want to go forward with it, but that you felt it was your duty to bring it to their attention. They may make the decision that the client is too important to piss off, or they may be so disgusted with them that they'll make it known that this sort of behavior is not appropriate.

But let THEM make that call. Just my $0.25 ($0.02, adjusted for inflation)

 

[earhart]

Were there any other representatives of your company on board?

While I don't have any experience with this sort of thing in a corporate flight department environment, if you strip that away, and take it on its face what they did-

They were abusing one of your employees. They were taking damaging company equipment. They were diplaying a total lack of respect for your company, it's assets and employees. If this occured not in the cabin of the company jet, but in a board room would it be appropriate? Or if they treated a female executive like that at a golf outing? Or even the receptionist? Hell no! So why is it ok to do it to a company FA?

I don't know what level employees they are with your client, but at the very least I'm sure THEIR bosses would like to know how they respect other companies.

A good manager looks out for those underneath them, and their department. They abused your FA and reduced her to tears. I think you owe it to her to bring this incident to your boss's attention; leave it up to them if they want to persue this further. If she's afraid of losing her job, then cover for her. Tell them she didn't want to go forward with it, but that you felt it was your duty to bring it to their attention. They may make the decision that the client is too important to piss off, or they may be so disgusted with them that they'll make it known that this sort of behavior is not appropriate.

But let THEM make that call. Just my $0.25 ($0.02, adjusted for inflation)

Thanks momalley81. You're right, of course, but I don't want to proceed without our FA.
In answer to your question there were no company reps aboard (not unusual for us) and they are a major client based in Moscow.

 

[skiandsurf]

PS Our FA was in tears after the flight but values her job too much to complain. I said I would support her but she has decided to leave it and call in sick if called to fly with them again.

I think your FA is the problem. Tell her to be a crewmember and take charge. She CANNOT get fired for this. If she does, your company will get even worse sexual harrasment publicity.

( just make sure everything is documented....names and dates)

 

[earhart]

I think your FA is the problem. Tell her to be a crewmember and take charge. She CANNOT get fired for this. If she does, your company will get even worse sexual harrasment publicity.

( just make sure everything is documented....names and dates)

Respectfully, I disagree that our FA is the problem. I understand she cannot get fired, but negative reporting of major clients isn't that easy. If we file a report it automatically goes to legal/ HR and on up the chain. She is naturally reticent to take it further.

 

[landlover]

your FA just got her big pay day, she should get a lawyer and get a law suit going! cha-ching!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[skiandsurf]

Respectfully, I disagree that our FA is the problem. I understand she cannot get fired, but negative reporting of major clients isn't that easy. If we file a report it automatically goes to legal/ HR and on up the chain. She is naturally reticent to take it further.

If your company is as "big and important" as you play it up, I am sure that they would like to hear her story.

 

[skiandsurf]

your FA just got her big pay day, she should get a lawyer and get a law suit going! cha-ching!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe this is "her lottery winner". Maybe she doesnt want you to talk so she can sue you and the company. By speaking up, you might be helping yourself as well. I am guessing that they would pay her off to keep this out of the media.

 

[earhart]

If your company is as "big and important" as you play it up, I am sure that they would like to hear her story.

I think your missing the point. It's not about a 'big and important' company (although I wasn't trying to sound like that) but rather asking for advice from my fellow part 91 pilots. I have heard your opinion and I thank you but perhaps others have different views or have been in similar situations and can offer advice.

 

[filejw]

By the way in most places her immediate supervisor is also responsible in providing a safe and hassle free work environment. Sounds like that may be you if your the Capt. If you didn't step in during the trip now may be the time.

 

[Blackjet]

PS Our FA was in tears after the flight but values her job too much to complain. I said I would support her but she has decided to leave it and call in sick if called to fly with them again.

Calling in sick will awake a sleeping giant. Do you not see the amount of financial liability that all of you are wantonly leaving the company exposed to because someone takes too much pride in their job and no pride in themselves? Will getting fired make the F/A feel better? I'll explain:

The next F/A is going to have the same problems with these people. I assume it will be a contract F/A? I ASSURE you, she WILL complain and WILL get a Lawyer and sue both companies for sexual harassment.

You know what happens next?

The powers that be will find out this is not the 1st time it happened. It will be discovered that the CP, F/A, and crew of the previous flight all conspired (that's what you did) to cover up the 1st incident. Though your intenetion was not deceit, it was still covered up. If the reporting sexual harassment is optional at your company, and I suspect that it is not, then you all are off the hook. If not, get that resume shined up.

You should start by EMAILING on the comapny email the CP and pressing him to take this forward. You have thought long and hard about this and you cannot, in good faith, just drop it. Explain to him that he is the department leader and this situation is serious enough to warrant him taking this information and reporting it. I sure this loser CP says "my airplane" when talking about it anyways, so be sure you tell him this serious episode happened on HIS airplane. Let him know that any response would be appreciate via a reply email.

Failing to report this situation will cause more trouble that it is worth.

 

[G21Agoose]

Calling in sick will awake a sleeping giant. The next F/A is going to have the same problems with these people. I assume it will be a contract F/A? I ASSURE you, she WILL complain and WILL get a Lawyer and sue both companies for sexual harassment.

You know what happens next?

The powers that be will find out this is not the 1st time it happened. Iw will be discovered that the CP, F/A, and crew of the previous flight all conspired (that's what you did) to cover up the 1st incident. Those your intenetion was not deceit, it was still covered up. If the reporting sexual harassment is optional at your company, and I suspect that it is not, then you all are off the hook. If not, get that resume shined up.

You should start by EMAILING on the comapny email the CP and pressing him to take this forward. You have thought long and hard about this and you cannot, in good faith, just drop it. Explain to him that he is the department leader and this situation is serious enough to warrant him taking this information and reporting it. I sure this loser CP says "my airplane" when talking about it anyways, so be sure you tell him this serious episode happened on HIS airplane. Let him know that any response would be appreciate via a reply email.

Failing to report this situation will cause more trouble that it is worth.

Although I understand the difficulties you face Blackjet is exactly right. Failure to file a report with the CP is justification for future trouble for you.
It IS the right thing to do.

 

[skiandsurf]

I have heard your opinion and I thank you but perhaps others have different views or have been in similar situations and can offer advice.

I think my thoughts are being echoed.