Trouble with PAX

[G21Agoose]

I think my thoughts are being echoed.

It could be aliens...............

 

[sleepy]

What, were your pax 10 years old?

 

[FL420]

I'm probably not qualified to offer an opinion on this but since when has that ever stopped me, or anybody else, on this board?

Document and report to your immediate supervisor via hard copy with a copy to the FA and one for your records. Stick strictly to the facts. No opinions. If you report something someone else(e.g.-the FA) said to you, make it clear it is not firsthand information.

Emails often get misplaced, deleted, altered or forwarded to someone you would rather not see it; someone who may not have your best interests at heart.

Protect yourself, your company and your FA. Encourage your Co-captain to do the same.

My 2¢

 

[TXGold]

If I were in your shoes, my company policy dictates that I report this to a supervisor, or if I don't think they will handle it properly, report to someone further up the chain of command. There is also an anonymous tipline to make a complaint, when needed. Personally, I would do what most everyone here is suggesting and send a formal email to the CP, cc: the Manager as well.

 

[filejw]

Earhart, Most of are tying to tell you to document and report from experience. All it takes is this womans relatives or boyfriend to hear about it and the lawyers will be involved if this is a US company.Next will be lots of grief.

 

[hawkerjet]

I believe the Captain the FO and FA should grow some balls and do what should have been done during the flight. As a Captain, the minute you were aware of this, is when you should have handled the situation. By restoring order on your aircraft immediately, the drunk pax probably would have been shamed into acting more appropriately, if not, the worst thing you have is 3 crew members statements along with any ground worker that saw the pax in a drunken manner. The fact that you are still undecided about reporting something as egregious as this, for fear of repercussions, says a lot about yourselves and your companies corporate culture. My boss would back me and my crewmembers unconditionally.

Just my .02!

 

[BN2A]

Easy solution, just "forget" to put booze on board if you have to fly them again.

 

[Blackjet]

Emails often get misplaced, deleted, altered or forwarded to someone you would rather not see it; someone who may not have your best interests at heart.

Do any of that and the case now goes from civil to criminal. That is not as widespread as you say. There is always a copy of the original, especially if you BCC your personal email address when sending emails. The law requires corporations to keep all email for a set period of time, just for situations like that. I do not know of 1 IT guy willing to alter an email odered surrendered by a court. I am sure there are some out there, but the guarentee of going to jail by doing something like that is probably enough incentive to keep it on the up and up.
If you want to see a situation turn REAL nasty, tell the judge/court the email was misplaced or deleted. Better yet, turn in a copy of that email and have them later discovered its contents have been altered to defraud the court. You'll get a lesson in what nasty really is.

 

[ag2pilot]

My co- Cap and I told the CP in detail but he has left it up to us if we wish to take it further. The guys were really drunk, running round the cabin, throwing food, making sexual remarks to the FA (although no touching) and generally being obnoxious. Drunk is no excuse but they are important for the company.

It looks to me like you have already taken the appropriate first step. Its too bad your CP doesn't have the spine to finish it for you (it's his job). Ask your FA what she would do if it was her daughter, instead of her. It wont be the easiest thing to do, but right is right, and wrong is wrong.
The company I worked for previously had a policy that if anybody got unruly on the plane, the pilots had the authority to land and dump them off the plane anywhere they saw fit. They never had a problem.

 

[IronManNDFW]

OK simular issue has happend to me!

In the condo jet world things are "different" because these "important pax," also own part of the airplane!"

1st off you and others have blown one MAJOR issue. The FA is a CREWMEMBER. Go act up with a FA on the airlines and see how far you get! How about being met at the gate by the FBI, being charged with interfearing with a CREWMEMBER and automatically getting 7 years in jail and min fine of $250,000 to start?

Now on my incident - simular sitation, but remember they own the (part of)airplane. Dosen't matter to me. I'm not going to sit idely by while someone abuses or attack a crewmember without action. This constitutes interfearing with a crewmember. Better safe than sorry in court.

The FA and I collected what reamind of the drinks, and put them in the jep binder holder between the pilots seats. I announced that this was no longer a drnking flight and that due to their behavior not only have they lost their drinking PRIVDGLES, bout that of the FA also. I had the FA set in the JS during the remainder of the flight. I then picked up the FF in the cockpit and called the company to report the incident, and told the company either 1) I drop them off in the middle of nowhere, USA if this continues, and that 2) I will make a full report once we land.

I actually had the lead pax ask me of we could land somewhere along the way to get more booze. I told him that we could land along the way, but that they would be getting off MY airpane and stayng whereever I landed.

I wrote the incident report (had the other piot and FA write one up as well), and sent a copies to my CP, DO, and CC'ed the legal department. The CP called and asked me "What happened." I explained to him that it was all in the report. I asked if he had the report, and he acknowledged that he did, I said then you have everything that I know there. He gave me back to dispatch for another trip.

I never heard anything more about it. Sometimes you just have to have Big Enough Balls to be the Captain even if you are not acting as the captain.

At another company, I have a pal who was hauling rappers, and their ho's (reppers words not mine). Hallf way into the flight, the crew smelt the buring of gonja. Ths is not something that they were trained to handle. They called their company and here is what they were told. "Put on your masks, raise the temp in the cabin, and raise the altitude of the cabin to put the pax to sleep. Make sure that they smokes were out as not to start a fire in the pax compartment. Declaire and emergancy and land at the nearest airfield. While on approach call to have the airplane meet by the police." Once the airplane landed, the cops took off a bunch of mesed up rappers straigh to jail.

Sure enough this actualy happened, and the crew was not charged with anything, and since they were involuntary involved, and self reported the drug issue, no charges were issued against the crew. They flew on later in the afternoon. After the munchies passed!

In the situation you described, unfortunately not only can the FA sue your ocmpany, the pax, but you as the flight crew for NOT protecting a CREWMEMBER.

If I was in you're mockasins I would ask teh other pilot & FA to write up a report, and submit copies to the CP, DO & legal department. Who knows what the pax will say, but at least the crew will have all their information "reduced to writing" incase anything does arise from this trip.

 

[earhart]

OK simular issue has happend to me!

In the condo jet world things are "different" because these "important pax," also own part of the airplane!"

1st off you and others have blown one MAJOR issue. The FA is a CREWMEMBER. Go act up with a FA on the airlines and see how far you get! How about being met at the gate by the FBI, being charged with interfearing with a CREWMEMBER and automatically getting 7 years in jail and min fine of $250,000 to start?

Now on my incident - simular sitation, but remember they own the (part of)airplane. Dosen't matter to me. I'm not going to sit idely by while someone abuses or attack a crewmember without action. This constitutes interfearing with a crewmember. Better safe than sorry in court.

The FA and I collected what reamind of the drinks, and put them in the jep binder holder between the pilots seats. I announced that this was no longer a drnking flight and that due to their behavior not only have they lost their drinking PRIVDGLES, bout that of the FA also. I had the FA set in the JS during the remainder of the flight. I then picked up the FF in the cockpit and called the company to report the incident, and told the company either 1) I drop them off in the middle of nowhere, USA if this continues, and that 2) I will make a full report once we land.

I actually had the lead pax ask me of we could land somewhere along the way to get more booze. I told him that we could land along the way, but that they would be getting off MY airpane and stayng whereever I landed.

I wrote the incident report (had the other piot and FA write one up as well), and sent a copies to my CP, DO, and CC'ed the legal department. The CP called and asked me "What happened." I explained to him that it was all in the report. I asked if he had the report, and he acknowledged that he did, I said then you have everything that I know there. He gave me back to dispatch for another trip.

I never heard anything more about it. Sometimes you just have to have Big Enough Balls to be the Captain even if you are not acting as the captain.

At another company, I have a pal who was hauling rappers, and their ho's (reppers words not mine). Hallf way into the flight, the crew smelt the buring of gonja. Ths is not something that they were trained to handle. They called their company and here is what they were told. "Put on your masks, raise the temp in the cabin, and raise the altitude of the cabin to put the pax to sleep. Make sure that they smokes were out as not to start a fire in the pax compartment. Declaire and emergancy and land at the nearest airfield. While on approach call to have the airplane meet by the police." Once the airplane landed, the cops took off a bunch of mesed up rappers straigh to jail.

Sure enough this actualy happened, and the crew was not charged with anything, and since they were involuntary involved, and self reported the drug issue, no charges were issued against the crew. They flew on later in the afternoon. After the munchies passed!

In the situation you described, unfortunately not only can the FA sue your ocmpany, the pax, but you as the flight crew for NOT protecting a CREWMEMBER.

If I was in you're mockasins I would ask teh other pilot & FA to write up a report, and submit copies to the CP, DO & legal department. Who knows what the pax will say, but at least the crew will have all their information "reduced to writing" incase anything does arise from this trip.

Thanks Ironman for the interesting and incisive reply. I am going to go ahead and file reports tomorrow with the CP and cc Legal.
Thank you all for your replies. I am surprised this doesn't happen more often (especially 135) but I hope if it hasn't happened to you, it never does.

 

[jonjuan]

My co- Cap and I told the CP in detail but he has left it up to us if we wish to take it further. The guys were really drunk, running round the cabin, throwing food, making sexual remarks to the FA (although no touching) and generally being obnoxious. Drunk is no excuse but they are important for the company.

Sounds like the Clinton's are acting the same way they did while travelling on AF1.

 

[skiandsurf]

Thanks Ironman for the interesting and incisive reply. I am going to go ahead and file reports tomorrow with the CP and cc Legal.
Thank you all for your replies. I am surprised this doesn't happen more often (especially 135) but I hope if it hasn't happened to you, it never does.

I have had 2 FAs start to cry.....I take this very serious. The first time was at LGA. We had landed but could not get to the gate to deplane due to weather stopping departures (planes landing, but nobody taking off). It was a hot, muggy New York summer day. After sitting in the "sweatbox" for nearly an hour, the FA called saying we had a pax that was 3 months pregnant and the lady was crying "how hot she was". I declared an emergency (yes while on the ground) and ATC got us to a gate and I also had Paramedics meet us at the gate. The other was more in line with your situation. We had pulled off the gate, and was informed of a 45 minuted ground stop. During this time, the FA called up front saying she had a guy that was cussing and being abusive. I made a PA trying to inform the pax of the delay. A few minutes later, she called again saying that the other pax were getting offended. She was starting to cry. Once I heard in her that she was crying....game over. We called the company, had them get the police ready as we were coming back to drop off a pax.

Sure this is in the airline world, but she is a CREWMEMBER and you need to PROTECT her. Stand-up for your teammates. I would certainly hope that your flight department and company would like to know that you are protecting your crew while on the road.

"tears for fear". Protect you, your crewmembers, your passengers, and your company.

 

[LJ45]

been there, with out the FA. I reported them to the CEO and they will no longer fly on our aircraft. That is unacceptable in my opinion.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

earhart,

I think you're biggest problem is your CP. Gutless CP for that matter. I've had to deal with that management style before and it isn't easy to say the least. I think most of these guys have hit it head on with reporting it for legal reasons and to be a Captain and leader but good luck with that CP. I wouldn't put $$$ down that he has your back.

Mr. I.

 

[maximizer]

it should most definitely be passed up the line. they would want to know how their airplane is being used/abused.

 

[Blackjet]

Sounds like the Clinton's are acting the same way they did while travelling on AF1.

What on earth are you talking about? We're you in the 89th? Do you know what the 89th is?

Where some people come up with these comments is beyond the realm of anything I will ever be able to understand.

 

[IronManNDFW]

Blackjet: Back off Francis. It was just a joke that has been spread by every new publication in the US. Let's not forget on AF 1 that they carry a pool of journalist along for the ride.

Surely some one heard it... Maybe the writer for the enquier!

 

[TundraT]

Don't let this lie.

This is the type of unfortunate situation that ends up in a flight incident. During the investigation the questions will be asked and the answers will be…It happened before but we didn’t report it. So as the in investigation continues the questions go to management and they respond….We’ll we weren’t informed about any incident on pervious flights how could we have prevented this incident under investigation?

Don’t let this lie. You will find something like this biting you in the future if it isn’t reported. When you report it try to keep all the emotion out of it a use all the threat to safety statements you can find.

 

[Rick1128]

Unfortunately, that type of behavior is not uncommon in certain parts of the world. One trick I have used in the past with drunks is to tur off the O2 mask deploy system and keep jacking the cabin altitude up until the go to sleep. It usually doesn't take too much altitude. Unfortunately, certain nationalities are know as professional drinkers. Russians are one of them. It will take a little more altitude to put them down. After they are all asleep, turn the cabin back down to normal and turn the O2 mask deploy system back on. They usually sleep for most of the trip.

Form your next trip with them, have a male FA who is very light in the loafers do the trip.