Trouble with PAX

[earhart]

If your company is as "big and important" as you play it up, I am sure that they would like to hear her story.

I think your missing the point. It's not about a 'big and important' company (although I wasn't trying to sound like that) but rather asking for advice from my fellow part 91 pilots. I have heard your opinion and I thank you but perhaps others have different views or have been in similar situations and can offer advice.

 

[filejw]

By the way in most places her immediate supervisor is also responsible in providing a safe and hassle free work environment. Sounds like that may be you if your the Capt. If you didn't step in during the trip now may be the time.

 

[Blackjet]

PS Our FA was in tears after the flight but values her job too much to complain. I said I would support her but she has decided to leave it and call in sick if called to fly with them again.

Calling in sick will awake a sleeping giant. Do you not see the amount of financial liability that all of you are wantonly leaving the company exposed to because someone takes too much pride in their job and no pride in themselves? Will getting fired make the F/A feel better? I'll explain:

The next F/A is going to have the same problems with these people. I assume it will be a contract F/A? I ASSURE you, she WILL complain and WILL get a Lawyer and sue both companies for sexual harassment.

You know what happens next?

The powers that be will find out this is not the 1st time it happened. It will be discovered that the CP, F/A, and crew of the previous flight all conspired (that's what you did) to cover up the 1st incident. Though your intenetion was not deceit, it was still covered up. If the reporting sexual harassment is optional at your company, and I suspect that it is not, then you all are off the hook. If not, get that resume shined up.

You should start by EMAILING on the comapny email the CP and pressing him to take this forward. You have thought long and hard about this and you cannot, in good faith, just drop it. Explain to him that he is the department leader and this situation is serious enough to warrant him taking this information and reporting it. I sure this loser CP says "my airplane" when talking about it anyways, so be sure you tell him this serious episode happened on HIS airplane. Let him know that any response would be appreciate via a reply email.

Failing to report this situation will cause more trouble that it is worth.

 

[G21Agoose]

Calling in sick will awake a sleeping giant. The next F/A is going to have the same problems with these people. I assume it will be a contract F/A? I ASSURE you, she WILL complain and WILL get a Lawyer and sue both companies for sexual harassment.

You know what happens next?

The powers that be will find out this is not the 1st time it happened. Iw will be discovered that the CP, F/A, and crew of the previous flight all conspired (that's what you did) to cover up the 1st incident. Those your intenetion was not deceit, it was still covered up. If the reporting sexual harassment is optional at your company, and I suspect that it is not, then you all are off the hook. If not, get that resume shined up.

You should start by EMAILING on the comapny email the CP and pressing him to take this forward. You have thought long and hard about this and you cannot, in good faith, just drop it. Explain to him that he is the department leader and this situation is serious enough to warrant him taking this information and reporting it. I sure this loser CP says "my airplane" when talking about it anyways, so be sure you tell him this serious episode happened on HIS airplane. Let him know that any response would be appreciate via a reply email.

Failing to report this situation will cause more trouble that it is worth.

Although I understand the difficulties you face Blackjet is exactly right. Failure to file a report with the CP is justification for future trouble for you.
It IS the right thing to do.

 

[skiandsurf]

I have heard your opinion and I thank you but perhaps others have different views or have been in similar situations and can offer advice.

I think my thoughts are being echoed.

 

[G21Agoose]

I think my thoughts are being echoed.

It could be aliens...............

 

[sleepy]

What, were your pax 10 years old?

 

[FL420]

I'm probably not qualified to offer an opinion on this but since when has that ever stopped me, or anybody else, on this board?

Document and report to your immediate supervisor via hard copy with a copy to the FA and one for your records. Stick strictly to the facts. No opinions. If you report something someone else(e.g.-the FA) said to you, make it clear it is not firsthand information.

Emails often get misplaced, deleted, altered or forwarded to someone you would rather not see it; someone who may not have your best interests at heart.

Protect yourself, your company and your FA. Encourage your Co-captain to do the same.

My 2¢

 

[TXGold]

If I were in your shoes, my company policy dictates that I report this to a supervisor, or if I don't think they will handle it properly, report to someone further up the chain of command. There is also an anonymous tipline to make a complaint, when needed. Personally, I would do what most everyone here is suggesting and send a formal email to the CP, cc: the Manager as well.

 

[filejw]

Earhart, Most of are tying to tell you to document and report from experience. All it takes is this womans relatives or boyfriend to hear about it and the lawyers will be involved if this is a US company.Next will be lots of grief.

 

[hawkerjet]

I believe the Captain the FO and FA should grow some balls and do what should have been done during the flight. As a Captain, the minute you were aware of this, is when you should have handled the situation. By restoring order on your aircraft immediately, the drunk pax probably would have been shamed into acting more appropriately, if not, the worst thing you have is 3 crew members statements along with any ground worker that saw the pax in a drunken manner. The fact that you are still undecided about reporting something as egregious as this, for fear of repercussions, says a lot about yourselves and your companies corporate culture. My boss would back me and my crewmembers unconditionally.

Just my .02!

 

[BN2A]

Easy solution, just "forget" to put booze on board if you have to fly them again.

 

[Blackjet]

Emails often get misplaced, deleted, altered or forwarded to someone you would rather not see it; someone who may not have your best interests at heart.

Do any of that and the case now goes from civil to criminal. That is not as widespread as you say. There is always a copy of the original, especially if you BCC your personal email address when sending emails. The law requires corporations to keep all email for a set period of time, just for situations like that. I do not know of 1 IT guy willing to alter an email odered surrendered by a court. I am sure there are some out there, but the guarentee of going to jail by doing something like that is probably enough incentive to keep it on the up and up.
If you want to see a situation turn REAL nasty, tell the judge/court the email was misplaced or deleted. Better yet, turn in a copy of that email and have them later discovered its contents have been altered to defraud the court. You'll get a lesson in what nasty really is.

 

[ag2pilot]

My co- Cap and I told the CP in detail but he has left it up to us if we wish to take it further. The guys were really drunk, running round the cabin, throwing food, making sexual remarks to the FA (although no touching) and generally being obnoxious. Drunk is no excuse but they are important for the company.

It looks to me like you have already taken the appropriate first step. Its too bad your CP doesn't have the spine to finish it for you (it's his job). Ask your FA what she would do if it was her daughter, instead of her. It wont be the easiest thing to do, but right is right, and wrong is wrong.
The company I worked for previously had a policy that if anybody got unruly on the plane, the pilots had the authority to land and dump them off the plane anywhere they saw fit. They never had a problem.

 

[IronManNDFW]

OK simular issue has happend to me!

In the condo jet world things are "different" because these "important pax," also own part of the airplane!"

1st off you and others have blown one MAJOR issue. The FA is a CREWMEMBER. Go act up with a FA on the airlines and see how far you get! How about being met at the gate by the FBI, being charged with interfearing with a CREWMEMBER and automatically getting 7 years in jail and min fine of $250,000 to start?

Now on my incident - simular sitation, but remember they own the (part of)airplane. Dosen't matter to me. I'm not going to sit idely by while someone abuses or attack a crewmember without action. This constitutes interfearing with a crewmember. Better safe than sorry in court.

The FA and I collected what reamind of the drinks, and put them in the jep binder holder between the pilots seats. I announced that this was no longer a drnking flight and that due to their behavior not only have they lost their drinking PRIVDGLES, bout that of the FA also. I had the FA set in the JS during the remainder of the flight. I then picked up the FF in the cockpit and called the company to report the incident, and told the company either 1) I drop them off in the middle of nowhere, USA if this continues, and that 2) I will make a full report once we land.

I actually had the lead pax ask me of we could land somewhere along the way to get more booze. I told him that we could land along the way, but that they would be getting off MY airpane and stayng whereever I landed.

I wrote the incident report (had the other piot and FA write one up as well), and sent a copies to my CP, DO, and CC'ed the legal department. The CP called and asked me "What happened." I explained to him that it was all in the report. I asked if he had the report, and he acknowledged that he did, I said then you have everything that I know there. He gave me back to dispatch for another trip.

I never heard anything more about it. Sometimes you just have to have Big Enough Balls to be the Captain even if you are not acting as the captain.

At another company, I have a pal who was hauling rappers, and their ho's (reppers words not mine). Hallf way into the flight, the crew smelt the buring of gonja. Ths is not something that they were trained to handle. They called their company and here is what they were told. "Put on your masks, raise the temp in the cabin, and raise the altitude of the cabin to put the pax to sleep. Make sure that they smokes were out as not to start a fire in the pax compartment. Declaire and emergancy and land at the nearest airfield. While on approach call to have the airplane meet by the police." Once the airplane landed, the cops took off a bunch of mesed up rappers straigh to jail.

Sure enough this actualy happened, and the crew was not charged with anything, and since they were involuntary involved, and self reported the drug issue, no charges were issued against the crew. They flew on later in the afternoon. After the munchies passed!

In the situation you described, unfortunately not only can the FA sue your ocmpany, the pax, but you as the flight crew for NOT protecting a CREWMEMBER.

If I was in you're mockasins I would ask teh other pilot & FA to write up a report, and submit copies to the CP, DO & legal department. Who knows what the pax will say, but at least the crew will have all their information "reduced to writing" incase anything does arise from this trip.