Trouble at IBT747

[Cardinal]

That didn't stop anyone from voting ALPA. I see that not even one vote was for ALPA. Not even that pro-ALPA faction that didn't seem bitter enough at the end to vote for ALPA. Anyways, good luck.

My fault, I didn't fully break out the election results. There were 3 write-ins for ALPA.

Wait until the excitement wears off and reality sets in.

Preaching to the choir. But that is the reality, organizing is a marketing exercise, and ALPA for all their merit fell short. Many of our fellow pilots are of the American Idol spoonfed mentality and buy into hype, not substance. ALPA can't rest on it's laurels and expect pilot groups to beg to be represented. Failure to sell themselves cost them this election.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Everybody loves their union when times are good. It's when times are bad things get ugly. I don't wish bad things on any airline but if the fit ever hits the shan at UPS or even Southwest you may well see pro-ALPA rumblings.

(The US Airways debacle is an exception. They only dumped ALPA because they thought it would undue a binding arbitration result they didn't like. ALPA could be back on property in a year.)

Wait until the excitement wears off and reality sets in.

ALPA was voted off at US Airways due to numerous mistakes. The arbitration was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was just one of many mistakes.

 

[PCL_128]

The "mistakes" were made by your local leaders that YOU elected, not by ALPA National.

 

[CFI]

But now they've embraced ComuteAir, Colgan, Capital Cargo, Evergreen along with a few more north of the border.

Good enough for AirTran and the above mentioned airlines but not good enough for the Great Lakes pilots I guess.

Yes, however there is at least one other small regional that approached ALPA recently. They were told for all practical purposes that they weren't worth ALPA's time and effort. ALPA went so far as suggesting that they contact the IBT.

 

[PCL_128]

Which regional was that?

 

[TWA Dude]

The arbitration was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Nobody believes you.

 

[OPECJet]

In-house unions are even more worthless than the IBT. For pilots, ALPA is the only way to go, despite its faults.

Tell Netjets that...

ALPA has great legal, safety, etc, support. It also has entirely too much lip service, eating of young, and all out BS. The ideals behind it are brilliant. Problem is it doesn't work.

 

[PCL_128]

Tell Netjets that...

Netjets isn't an airline. Big difference. They really have no good home within any big union. In-house is the only decent option for them, and it seems to be working ok for them so far. Independent unions don't work for airlines, however, unless you have benevolent management like they have at SWA.

ALPA has great legal, safety, etc, support. It also has entirely too much lip service, eating of young, and all out BS. The ideals behind it are brilliant. Problem is it doesn't work.

It works, so long as you elect good local leaders. All of the support and resources you could ever hope for are at your finger tips with ALPA. You just need good local leaders to use them to your advantage.

 

[pilotyip]

IBT 474 everywhere

Just wait for EFCA, a few Teamsters in the parking lot after work, we will IBT747 everywhere. This comes from a former member of IBT747

 

[PCL_128]

EFCA doesn't apply to RLA industries. (not that your ridiculous insinuations about EFCA are true, anyway)

 

[pilotyip]

me +

EFCA doesn't apply to RLA industries. (not that your ridiculous insinuations about EFCA are true, anyway)

yea you are right me and a majority of congress. This is a dead issue

 

[Airline Driver]

In-house unions are even more worthless than the IBT. For pilots, ALPA is the only way to go, despite its faults.

Is that right! Hmmmmmmmm....:erm: Why then are Southwest Pilots and UPS Pilots some of the Highest Paid Pilots in our industry with great working environments? They both have in-house union's! Your Pro-ALPA, always have been and always will be. Thats great if it works for you and are happy with them. There are pro's and Con's to both, but ALPA is not the answerer, salvation or the second coming of Christ, for our industry. They are just another money hungry entity that does not give a damn about you or anyone else they, "Supposedly", represent. That of course is my opinion and I know yours is different that mine.

 

[PCL_128]

SWAPA is successful because of SWA management, not because of SWAPA. Any union can be successful with benevolent management.

The IPA is only marginally successful, in my opinion. Their contract lags behind the FDX agreement considerably, and the management structure that they have that allows hundreds of non-seniority management pilots is atrocious and was not even addressed by the IPA in their last contract.

But most importantly, independent unions have no say on the national or international stages, and that is where the real progress is made. If you don't get any respect in Congress, with the President, or at ICAO, then you're never going to make any true progress for the profession, and none of the independents get any significant access to any of the above.

 

[CopilotDoug]

SWAPA is successful because of SWA management, not because of SWAPA. Any union can be successful with benevolent management.

The IPA is only marginally successful, in my opinion. Their contract lags behind the FDX agreement considerably, and the management structure that they have that allows hundreds of non-seniority management pilots is atrocious and was not even addressed by the IPA in their last contract.

But most importantly, independent unions have no say on the national or international stages, and that is where the real progress is made. If you don't get any respect in Congress, with the President, or at ICAO, then you're never going to make any true progress for the profession, and none of the independents get any significant access to any of the above.

PFT...I know you and Rez love to play "Let's compare FedEx to UPS"

How many management pilots does FedEx have compared to those at UPS?

You mention "real" progress happens in congress. Is that where Payraises come from? Is that where schedules come from?

I guess the independents like IPA, APA, and SWAPA will have to go along with their decent pay and benefits while not having their representation in congress. Ooops, don't want to leave out Skywest, either.

But please...keep telling your "brothers" at Mesa, Pinnacle, and United that the REAL progress for the profession lies in congress.

By the way, why did you ever leave you're promised land at Pinnacle? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[DOVPILOT]

But now they've embraced ComuteAir, Colgan, Capital Cargo, Evergreen along with a few more north of the border.

Good enough for AirTran and the above mentioned airlines but not good enough for the Great Lakes pilots I guess.

I have a friend at Colgan who was on the unionizing commity and I pleaded with him to piss on the IBT, which they did!!!!

 

[The Drizzle]

Sh!t just got real.


Real real.

Real real SON.

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

I can't get on the local website. Am I represented? Do I still have to pay dues? Will they be prorated? Will our future new hires still get a couple of slices of pizza in exchange for their hard earned dollars?

 

[Axel]

I can't get on the local website. Am I represented? Do I still have to pay dues? Will they be prorated? Will our future new hires still get a couple of slices of pizza in exchange for their hard earned dollars?

There is a thread on RP.org. in the EXCO Messages forum. The EXCO is using that to communicate since local747.org gives a 404 error.

You are still represented and the contract is still in full force and effect. The executive council and all the committees are still operational.

Waiting to hear from the Airline Division about new leadership since the Executive Board has been removed.

And yes, you still have to pay your dues. RAH is still IBT.

 

[FlyingDawg]

Well maybe, but lets not forget that ALPA has blown off some smaller pilot groups that have approached them about representation.

Including RAH group, formally known as the Chautauqua pilots.

 

[Cardinal]

Finally some movement! As a Great Lakes organizer, "you're welcome" for the wake-up call sent to the IBT. Hope this is the beginning of a new day for all those under the 747 umbrella.