Trouble at IBT747

[pilotyip]

me +

EFCA doesn't apply to RLA industries. (not that your ridiculous insinuations about EFCA are true, anyway)

yea you are right me and a majority of congress. This is a dead issue

 

[Airline Driver]

In-house unions are even more worthless than the IBT. For pilots, ALPA is the only way to go, despite its faults.

Is that right! Hmmmmmmmm....:erm: Why then are Southwest Pilots and UPS Pilots some of the Highest Paid Pilots in our industry with great working environments? They both have in-house union's! Your Pro-ALPA, always have been and always will be. Thats great if it works for you and are happy with them. There are pro's and Con's to both, but ALPA is not the answerer, salvation or the second coming of Christ, for our industry. They are just another money hungry entity that does not give a damn about you or anyone else they, "Supposedly", represent. That of course is my opinion and I know yours is different that mine.

 

[PCL_128]

SWAPA is successful because of SWA management, not because of SWAPA. Any union can be successful with benevolent management.

The IPA is only marginally successful, in my opinion. Their contract lags behind the FDX agreement considerably, and the management structure that they have that allows hundreds of non-seniority management pilots is atrocious and was not even addressed by the IPA in their last contract.

But most importantly, independent unions have no say on the national or international stages, and that is where the real progress is made. If you don't get any respect in Congress, with the President, or at ICAO, then you're never going to make any true progress for the profession, and none of the independents get any significant access to any of the above.

 

[CopilotDoug]

SWAPA is successful because of SWA management, not because of SWAPA. Any union can be successful with benevolent management.

The IPA is only marginally successful, in my opinion. Their contract lags behind the FDX agreement considerably, and the management structure that they have that allows hundreds of non-seniority management pilots is atrocious and was not even addressed by the IPA in their last contract.

But most importantly, independent unions have no say on the national or international stages, and that is where the real progress is made. If you don't get any respect in Congress, with the President, or at ICAO, then you're never going to make any true progress for the profession, and none of the independents get any significant access to any of the above.

PFT...I know you and Rez love to play "Let's compare FedEx to UPS"

How many management pilots does FedEx have compared to those at UPS?

You mention "real" progress happens in congress. Is that where Payraises come from? Is that where schedules come from?

I guess the independents like IPA, APA, and SWAPA will have to go along with their decent pay and benefits while not having their representation in congress. Ooops, don't want to leave out Skywest, either.

But please...keep telling your "brothers" at Mesa, Pinnacle, and United that the REAL progress for the profession lies in congress.

By the way, why did you ever leave you're promised land at Pinnacle? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[DOVPILOT]

But now they've embraced ComuteAir, Colgan, Capital Cargo, Evergreen along with a few more north of the border.

Good enough for AirTran and the above mentioned airlines but not good enough for the Great Lakes pilots I guess.

I have a friend at Colgan who was on the unionizing commity and I pleaded with him to piss on the IBT, which they did!!!!

 

[The Drizzle]

Sh!t just got real.


Real real.

Real real SON.

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

I can't get on the local website. Am I represented? Do I still have to pay dues? Will they be prorated? Will our future new hires still get a couple of slices of pizza in exchange for their hard earned dollars?

 

[Axel]

I can't get on the local website. Am I represented? Do I still have to pay dues? Will they be prorated? Will our future new hires still get a couple of slices of pizza in exchange for their hard earned dollars?

There is a thread on RP.org. in the EXCO Messages forum. The EXCO is using that to communicate since local747.org gives a 404 error.

You are still represented and the contract is still in full force and effect. The executive council and all the committees are still operational.

Waiting to hear from the Airline Division about new leadership since the Executive Board has been removed.

And yes, you still have to pay your dues. RAH is still IBT.

 

[FlyingDawg]

Well maybe, but lets not forget that ALPA has blown off some smaller pilot groups that have approached them about representation.

Including RAH group, formally known as the Chautauqua pilots.

 

[Cardinal]

Finally some movement! As a Great Lakes organizer, "you're welcome" for the wake-up call sent to the IBT. Hope this is the beginning of a new day for all those under the 747 umbrella.

 

[Seahawker01]

in-house v alpa

In-house unions are a viable option at larger airlines but since this is a regional board there is really no place for them here. Negotiations and union overhead cost a lot more than most of you realize. ALPA subsidizes a lot of regional pilot groups with mainline money. Simple fact: the small pilot groups and low wages of regional airlines produces very little cash for that groups union. An in-house union could be successful with a benevolent management group. But since that does not exist at most regionals, management could easily out-spend an in-house union in negotiations. ALPA is far from perfect but really is the best option for most of us.

 

[belchfire]

The "mistakes" were made by your local leaders that YOU elected, not by ALPA National.

But taking wage and work rule concessions to airlines in bankruptcy who then handed CEO's multi-million dollar parachutes wasn't a mistake...give me a fracking break!

 

[belchfire]

But most importantly, independent unions have no say on the national or international stages, and that is where the real progress is made. If you don't get any respect in Congress, with the President, or at ICAO, then you're never going to make any true progress for the profession, and none of the independents get any significant access to any of the above.

Ahhh...I get it now. That's why a company can say your duty time ends 15 minutes after you block in-even though you don't get into your hotel room for another 45 minutes. Because ALPA has so much influence in Congress...

I see it now. It's all becoming clear-a reduced rest period of eight hours that gives you less than seven in the room-with no time alotted for supper, a shower or breakfast in the morning is safe...as if we were part of the machine and could go into REM sleep on command.

Gadzooks I'm glad ALPA has so much influence with the people who make the rules!!!

Give it up-most recently ALPA is noted for caving in to management demands!

 

[BoilerUP]

The IPA is only marginally successful, in my opinion. Their contract lags behind the FDX agreement considerably, and the management structure that they have that allows hundreds of non-seniority management pilots is atrocious and was not even addressed by the IPA in their last contract.

The IPA trying to capture Flight Management jobs during the 2006 contract would be like DALPA trying to recapture 50 seat scope - odds of it happening are slim to none, and even if they could recapture it, are those pilots willing to pay the price in negotiating capital?

I'm also curious how you think the IPA '06 contract, which was TA'd and ratified before the FDX '06 contract, "lags considerbly" (other than first-year pay, which I'll conceed).

 

[CopilotDoug]

But taking wage and work rule concessions to airlines in bankruptcy who then handed CEO's multi-million dollar parachutes wasn't a mistake...give me a fracking break!

Be sure to bring ALPA on property so you can now fight with two entities - Your Management and Your "Union"

What a f-ckin' joke

 

[CopilotDoug]

The "mistakes" were made by your local leaders that YOU elected, not by ALPA National.

If you're going to play that card...each pilot group accountable to itself...where's the "Union"? Where are the orders to march in lock-step coming from? However is the profession to progress if everyone is going their own way???

HELP US, ALPA! HELP US!

 

[CEO silly sap]

Yes, however there is at least one other small regional that approached ALPA recently. They were told for all practical purposes that they weren't worth ALPA's time and effort. ALPA went so far as suggesting that they contact the IBT.

You would be incorrect in that statement.

 

[tyuwerty]

CEO, I don't know about the specifics of CFI's claim, but there is a history of ALPA turning small groups away.

In 1999, an ALPA organizing rep personally told me to contact the IBT. We were trying to organize a group of 40-50 pilots.

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA has changed their tune on organizing small groups. One of the carriers they organized last year in Canada had only a few dozen pilots.

 

[CEO silly sap]

CEO, I don't know about the specifics of CFI's claim, but there is a history of ALPA turning small groups away.

In 1999, an ALPA organizing rep personally told me to contact the IBT. We were trying to organize a group of 40-50 pilots.

That was ten years ago and maybe 2 or 3 presidents and multiple Executive Boards ago. What about right now 2009. The, past history doesn't indicate future performance, disclaimer should be place here now.

The end game is, I hope the pilots that were or are or never were represented by the IBT are going to either A) get the representation and the contracts they deserve and fight for B) get mad enough to make a change in some form or other. C) contact ALPA and ask if they can assist them in making any possible changes. Either way, these pilots are in a dire situation and need help and leadership.

I would not have gotten my retirement and the good life I have now if it wasnt for ALPA and the pilots of ALPA.