Trimming a B200 for proper flare, what if you GA?

[Snakum]

Dumb newbie question time ...

I've stopped trying to muscle the King Air into a proper flare with one arm, and have finally learned to stop being such a punk on the trim switch. I really roll it in. But I wondered, if I had to go-around just before touchdown, would I have to stand on the yoke to keep it from stalling when I push in the power? I realize that the aerodynamics are way different from a hi-perf piston single, but having gotten a scare the first time I did a last minute GA in a C182, I wanted to ask anyway.

Minhberg

 

[The_Russian]

No man, you just have to hit that trim switch down as you put the power up. Have you flown it yet? You just started right?

 

[Snakum]

You mean have I flown a go-around in a King Air? No ... not yet.

On the B200 I've flown (meaning hand-flown the whole way) maybe 10 legs, and did the take-offs and landings on all of them after the first one, with varying levels of success. So yes ... I'm still a rank beginner with LOTS to learn.

Oddly enough, I've never had any problems with the take-offs and landings, but for some bizarre reason I had a devil of a time learning how to taxi correctly/smoothly at low speed. I posted a question about it here a few weeks ago, in fact. I often get to taxi even when I'm not flying ... the boss obviously knew I needed practice on it. :laugh: The trick was learning how to use differential thrust to help it along, as someone here suggested when I ask about it.

But my landings have always been pretty good considering my very low time. But I have always been told to keep one hand on the power levers all the way from final to the ramp, and I was having to pull pretty hard to get the nose up in the flare until I learned I needed to trim a LOT more. I was just curious about a last-minute go-around and how the nose-hi trim would affect handling.

So ... when you say that I would just run it back down on a go-around, and knowing how relatively slowly it moves, am I going to be struggling with the yoke to keep the nose down while the trim comes in, or is it pretty much a non-event?

Thanks for the info ...

Minh

 

[avbug]

Minh,

Try trimming down to approach speed, and then stop trimming. As you go slower, use back presure. If you go around, you're already trimmed on speed, as you start your climb at the same speed for which you were trimmed, and then accelerate and retrim to your climb speed.

 

[The_Russian]

The trim is slow to your eye, but on the stab its fast back there. It will keep up with you. Its a NON-EVENT!!!! If you want to grease it you should use a lot of trim.

 

[minitour]

What if the electric trim fails in the go-around?

-mini

 

[Workin'Stiff]

You use your hand and start throwin' that little wheel!

 

[Thedude]

uhh...been a while since I've flown a B-200 but I dont remember it having manual trim...just a standyby emergency trim

 

[MauleSkinner]

uhh...been a while since I've flown a B-200 but I dont remember it having manual trim...just a standyby emergency trim

That's actually the 100 series King Airs that have dual electric systems.

Snakum--get them to let you take it up and do a couple of stalls...trim it like you would for landing, and go-around...it'll give you a good pitch up, but if you muscle it for about 2 seconds while you give the trim wheel a quick 3/4 turn or so, it works out pretty well.

Fly safe!

David

 

[JAFI]

Dumb newbie question time ...

But I wondered, if I had to go-around just before touchdown, would I have to stand on the yoke to keep it from stalling when I push in the power?
Minhberg

In a word, maybe.....

IMHO You can "over" trim on some aircraft during flair/roundout. Remember that the trim wheel is to take pressure off the yoke, not a "auto landing" device like some pilots think it is that I have run into. You will find through some practice where to stop trimming so to not over trim (for the possible go around). Ask the person you are flying with about their technique. The stall practice suggested in not a bad idea. I use the same technique as Avbug suggested. It will cover a wide range of aircraft types.

Also, you are now getting into aircraft with a larger CG envolope where your aircraft could be more tail or nose heavy than you are used to (depending on how the aircraft is loaded). A tail heavy aircraft with a lot of nose up trim during the initial go-around can be a handfull. Be carefull.

JAFI

 

[Snakum]

Thanks for all the info, everyone. I have an empty leg next week and the Captain will generally use those for things like emergency descents, single-engine work, etc. If the weather's good on the way back I'll ask about running thru a couple stalls.

Thanks again!


Minh

"Touched by His noodley appendage. Rah-men!"

 

[HMR]

The B200 doesn't have any bad go-around tendencies. I was based out of KVNY when I flew one and it wasn't uncommon to have the tower give the dreaded "go-around" call on short final. I NEVER used the electric trim in the 200, even in the brand-new model I was flying. That big manual trim wheel is awesome and, IMHO, gives alot better feel. In the 200 it's perfectly acceptable to trim away ALL of the back pressure for landing.

Our CP used to make us do full-power stalls every 6 months in the B200. I think it's a dumb thing to do in a twin and don't recommend it. Nonetheless, it was an interesting exercise. The plane will hang on the props at a rediculous deck angle before it breaks. You'd have to be waaaay behind the ball to get into trouble due to trim on a go-around.

 

[The_Russian]

The B200 doesn't have any bad go-around tendencies. I was based out of KVNY when I flew one and it wasn't uncommon to have the tower give the dreaded "go-around" call on short final. I NEVER used the electric trim in the 200, even in the brand-new model I was flying. That big manual trim wheel is awesome and, IMHO, gives alot better feel. In the 200 it's perfectly acceptable to trim away ALL of the back pressure for landing.

Amem brotha!!! Took the words out of my mouth.

 

[HawkerF/O]

You use your hand and start throwin' that little wheel!

THANK YOU!! Just because the switch is on the yoke does not mean you have to use it. Grab a fist full of trim wheel and go to work on it. Also, it's my opinion that you are using waaaaaay too much trim if a routine go around is going to cause a possible disaster without and exorbant amount of forward trim.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.? Try posting on here or the NBAA message board asking the landing/flare techniques of other B200 pilots and see what they have to say.
How fast are you coming in? Try REF +10. As you cross over the threshold, pull 1/4 to 1/2 the travel out of the power levers. Now, bring that Smoke Wagon down to about 3 to 4 feet off the ground, level it off, then ever so slightly start to trim the nose up and power to flight Idle (Dont let it float). You'll roll that bad boy on every time and that nose will be up in the air lookin' oh so sweet!!

 

[avbug]

I think I used the manual trim a whole lot more in the King Air than I used the electric trim.

Our CP used to make us do full-power stalls every 6 months in the B200. I think it's a dumb thing to do in a twin and don't recommend it.

We used to do full stalls in all our aircraft, from little to big, one engine to four. Knowing the aircraft's low speed habits is more important than knowing it's high end regime. You never have to tickle upper limits, but passing through the lower end is a necessity at least twice every flight.

Single engine full stalls in a multi engine airplane are another matter, and are inappropriate. But all engine stalls are not.

 

[BE200Driver]

Manual trim all the way. Electric is good for the taxi checks.

I find with the 4 bladed props that once i have the runway made i will walk the levers back to 200lbs a side. Much less and you'll know you arrived. I will make small corrections quickly with the wiz wheel and right back to the levers. A real no brainer once you've done it a few hundered times, lol.

 

[flyinlow67]

Yup, walking them back does wonders. What will also do wonders, is when you are able to feel the props coming out of governor. This keeps you from doing the last minute fishtail on the centerline when one comes out before the other. Learned that one the hard way.....

 

[Snakum]

Manual trim is preferred, and I use it with a Captain who is an MEI (I can fly from the left-hand seat). But it's a stretch from the right with so much else going on, even when you're 6'1".

Thanks for all the info ... much appreciated.

Ming