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transition from airline to part 91 corp. question

sonic340

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OK all, here goes. Getting furloughed and have been in the airlines for about 10 years. I've been offered a job flying a Citation Ultra which will be operated part 91. This is an upgrade for this particular company as they previously had a turboprop. I am going to be in charge of pretty much everything on this bird and need some direction and advice on making this transition. Would like info on how most operators do their flight planning, w and b, etc. Thanks for any input folks.
 

Fly91

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OK all, here goes. Getting furloughed and have been in the airlines for about 10 years. I've been offered a job flying a Citation Ultra which will be operated part 91. This is an upgrade for this particular company as they previously had a turboprop. I am going to be in charge of pretty much everything on this bird and need some direction and advice on making this transition. Would like info on how most operators do their flight planning, w and b, etc. Thanks for any input folks.

Pretty simple. You do your own flight planning in that type of aircraft.

W&B: Some 91 ops do them and some don't. You don't have to.

That should be an amazingly easy and smooth transition for you. Literally, the hardest thing you'll encounter is that you now have to file your own flight plans. But they take all of 1 minute on fltplan.com.
 

Balou

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go to fltplan.com it great! review chapter 5 in your MX manual to know when to schedule MX. W&B from flight manual.
oh also learn how to become magician so you can make alot of luggage fit in a small area !

Balou
 

ProFracPilot

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Because it is a turbine aircraft, someone will have to be named responsible for the inspection program on the Ultra (ref 91.409 (f)). If you have a DOM, this is a no brainer. If you're a one man show, it will be you who is named responsible for assuring the aircraft is inspected per whichever program you select.

Also, you're going to have to secure LOA's from the local FSDO for RVSM operations. Some, if not most, require an RVSM Manual. There may already be an RVSM LOA for the turboprop, but this will need to be changed when you get the Ultra.

Once you're up an running, these things are easy to maintain. It may just require some intense work for the start-up. I have experience in these areas. Feel free to PM me if you'd like some help.

PfP
 

sonic340

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Thanks for all the info so far people. I will definitely do some checking into some of these things, especially regarding the comments by ProFrac. Good stuff and will PM you as well. Thanks again.
 

NCherches

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wow - filing a flight plan... there's a concept airlines guys forget about
 

svcta

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SOLO!
Sonic, PM me if you'd like, I can put you in touch with someone who does RVSM manuals and MELs (ex FED) and who can tell you everything you need to know about managing a jet under 91.
 

gulfstreameric

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enough
do not forget

... and cleaning A/C before and after flight, ordering catering, hotel planning, FUEL purchase and or joining fuel clubs. Taking care of Jeppessen subscriptions, hangar space reservations if needed, FBO advising, invoice checking eq accounting work in the office, open line communication to any flight department issue not just 9 to 5 ...

It is work, not just drive and park

Success w the new job !!
 

Snakum

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Doesn't every multi-engine airplane operator have to perform a weight and balance?

Never done one for Pt 91 flying ... only Pt 135. Which means usually at the end of the day the PIC or me (gear slinger) will fill in the form with some numbers pulled out of our ass for every leg we flew with peoples on 'em. :D
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
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B, give me a call sometime and we can chat...I do the same thing you've been offered to do and perhaps as a fellow AWAC alum I can offer some insight.


"Kentucky Wildcat"
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
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Uh guys, the transition ain't hard...but breaking it down to "you file your own flight plans" is way, WAY overly simplistic especially when you consider sonic is going to be the Chief Pilot/DO for a company who is getting their first jet.

Impossible? Hardly, I did it! Hard? Not really at all. Easy to overlook something because you don't have a background in it that can lead to non-compliance or overflying scheduled/life-limited maintenance? Happened far, FAR more than once...
 

GCAP

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Join NBAA. (not you-the corp.) You will have access to everything you need to run the flight department.
I've told my friends that made the transition that you only need a few things "coffeee, ice, papers, and check the accu-quick"
 

ProFracPilot

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I took the customer service issue for granted, but given where you're coming from it may take some ramping up on your part and some getting used to.

What are the principals needs / desires? Is there a dossier available that will give you insight as to their likes and dislikes? Stocking the galley with Johnny Walker when the boss wants Glenlivet may seem like a small thing, but if you miss that detail it can set a bad tone. There may be many of these kinds of details. Or if you're lucky the passenger amenity end of the operation will be relatively "low maintenance".

I flew for an individual that despised stretch limos and white cars. This was a huge deal to him. We did everything we could to make sure that neither of these were on the ramp when we landed. Sounds easy, but you'd be surprised what people will promise compared to what they deliver. When a white stretch pulled up beside the airplane one morning (after being told on ARINC that it was a BLACK sedan), I quickly grabbed the "grey" crew car and drove the boss to his meeting myself. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Hopefully, you're joining a laid back operation that will provide you an opportunity to do a great job and have fun at the same time. If you're going into a flight department such as this, consider yourself blessed.

PfP
 
Last edited:

huskerpilot

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Here are a few resources for you:

www.fltplan.com for filing flight plans and getting weather.

NBAA for information, questions, and great help for the corporate pilot.

CAMP systems is a great maintenance tracking program we use, tells you what maintenance is coming due when, lets you track numbers such as cycles, engine time, etc. in conjunction with maintenance.

Get to know the aircraft maintenance people. If it's your in house people or an FBO you use. Get cell phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and just stop by and chat every once in a while.

Do some research into the airplane. Who owned it first? What kind of quirks does it have?

Also, as far as W&B goes, I totally disagree with the "some people use it, some don't" attitude. While it may be true, it is so easy now-a-days to either make a W&B program in Excell or get one from any number of companies that you should do one for every flight. It's your ass on the line if you run off the end of the runway because the boss wants to take all his buddies and golf clubs plus full fuel. Know the airplane, what it will carry and what it won't.

Feel free to PM me with any questions. I am just like you, came from 121 and am now managaing an airplane for a company. I'd love to help. Good luck!
 

stratman560

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As far as MX goes on Citations, get signed up on CesCom and ProParts and start entering your cycles and times in Cescom online. It will keep track of all SB's, AD's, and all of your phase inspections on the airplane. It's a great maintenance tracker IMO and since its a Cessna, you may as well sign up for it and use it. I used to enter our times on the 15th and the beginning of each month and print off a copy of our upcoming inspections and keep it with our CesCom binder so we could stay up to date and plan our maintenance accordingly. As the guys on here have already stated, get your RVSM LOA and a manual approved if there isn't already one with aircraft or you want to make some changes. W&B IMO is a snap in the 560, its a docile airplane and you'll have to work pretty hard to get it out of limits. You'll get a good feel of the W&B in groundschool. Only gotcha I can think of is that the STANDARD ZFW on the straight 560 is 11,200 and the OPTIONAL will boost you to 12,200. Most all of the straight 560's had the 11,200 and that will leave you with about 1400 lbs of payload that you can carry with a 9800 BOW which is where we sat. I'm not sure if they changed that on the Ultra or not, but it was the case on the Citation V. Basically, you can haul 6 people no worries, if you get seven you better make sure they are not linebackers :). Have fun man, your gonna love that bird I can tell you that. Its an honest 410-420 kt airplane and its a blast to fly. I'm turning green with envy as we speak....and you get that nice Primus 1000 in the Ultra. Have fun man....feel free to PM with any ?s.

Strat

OK all, here goes. Getting furloughed and have been in the airlines for about 10 years. I've been offered a job flying a Citation Ultra which will be operated part 91. This is an upgrade for this particular company as they previously had a turboprop. I am going to be in charge of pretty much everything on this bird and need some direction and advice on making this transition. Would like info on how most operators do their flight planning, w and b, etc. Thanks for any input folks.
 

ksu_aviator

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OK all, here goes. Getting furloughed and have been in the airlines for about 10 years. I've been offered a job flying a Citation Ultra which will be operated part 91. This is an upgrade for this particular company as they previously had a turboprop. I am going to be in charge of pretty much everything on this bird and need some direction and advice on making this transition. Would like info on how most operators do their flight planning, w and b, etc. Thanks for any input folks.

Wow, I don't even know where to begin. You are looking for info on filing flight plans and w/b. That isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

Just off the top of my head:

Everything above +
Set up a customs account
Find a list of unneccesary equipment for your aircraft (like an MEL, but for part 91 ops)
Establish a maintenance program (I have 4 excel spreadsheets, one of which is 100 pages long, that track every maintenance check, when it was done last AND when it is due next)
Set up a flight time/cycles/expesnes report
I think someone already mentioned the LOA for RVSM.
Chart services
Time swap agreements
You'll need to set up e-mail alerts with the FAA, TSA, Cessna Citation, your local airport, your GPS if you have one and so on.
Ya, you can use Fltplan.com for flight plans, it is great.
For w/b, I set up a simple spreadsheet that calculates the w/b for me. All I have to do is enter the numbers. You aren't required to complete a w/b for any flight. You are required to carry the w/b data for the aircraft.
There are services that can help you with performance, or you can do it yourself.

Good luck. Managing an aircraft for the first time is an excersize of doing the best you can and hoping you don't miss something important.

Oh, almost forgot...you'll need these links:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/forms/
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov...ate_flyers_guide.ctt/private_flyers_guide.pdf
 

Fly91

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Doesn't every multi-engine airplane operator have to perform a weight and balance?

91 is not required to ever do a W & B.

135 usually is required, but it depends on the ops specs, some 135 operators don't have to do them either, under certain conditions.

It has nothing to do with how many engines a plane has.
 

siouxicide

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91 is not required to ever do a W & B.

135 usually is required, but it depends on the ops specs, some 135 operators don't have to do them either, under certain conditions.

It has nothing to do with how many engines a plane has.


Explain that to a fed. Required to have a paper trail part 91? No. Required to ensure you're within the envelope? Yes. I know a guy that told a fed he didn't have to do a W&B because that leg was 91. Wrong answer.
As far as the 135 thing goes, my old j-o-b required only multi-engine aircraft to furnish a copy of the W&B unless it was a 91 leg. The singles were exempt. I'm pretty sure that's a 135 thing, not a special authorization from the FSDO since my higher-ups would likely have never gone through the trouble.
 
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