transition from airline to part 91 corp. question

[stratman560]

As far as MX goes on Citations, get signed up on CesCom and ProParts and start entering your cycles and times in Cescom online. It will keep track of all SB's, AD's, and all of your phase inspections on the airplane. It's a great maintenance tracker IMO and since its a Cessna, you may as well sign up for it and use it. I used to enter our times on the 15th and the beginning of each month and print off a copy of our upcoming inspections and keep it with our CesCom binder so we could stay up to date and plan our maintenance accordingly. As the guys on here have already stated, get your RVSM LOA and a manual approved if there isn't already one with aircraft or you want to make some changes. W&B IMO is a snap in the 560, its a docile airplane and you'll have to work pretty hard to get it out of limits. You'll get a good feel of the W&B in groundschool. Only gotcha I can think of is that the STANDARD ZFW on the straight 560 is 11,200 and the OPTIONAL will boost you to 12,200. Most all of the straight 560's had the 11,200 and that will leave you with about 1400 lbs of payload that you can carry with a 9800 BOW which is where we sat. I'm not sure if they changed that on the Ultra or not, but it was the case on the Citation V. Basically, you can haul 6 people no worries, if you get seven you better make sure they are not linebackers . Have fun man, your gonna love that bird I can tell you that. Its an honest 410-420 kt airplane and its a blast to fly. I'm turning green with envy as we speak....and you get that nice Primus 1000 in the Ultra. Have fun man....feel free to PM with any ?s.

Strat

OK all, here goes. Getting furloughed and have been in the airlines for about 10 years. I've been offered a job flying a Citation Ultra which will be operated part 91. This is an upgrade for this particular company as they previously had a turboprop. I am going to be in charge of pretty much everything on this bird and need some direction and advice on making this transition. Would like info on how most operators do their flight planning, w and b, etc. Thanks for any input folks.

 

[ksu_aviator]

OK all, here goes. Getting furloughed and have been in the airlines for about 10 years. I've been offered a job flying a Citation Ultra which will be operated part 91. This is an upgrade for this particular company as they previously had a turboprop. I am going to be in charge of pretty much everything on this bird and need some direction and advice on making this transition. Would like info on how most operators do their flight planning, w and b, etc. Thanks for any input folks.

Wow, I don't even know where to begin. You are looking for info on filing flight plans and w/b. That isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

Just off the top of my head:

Everything above +
Set up a customs account
Find a list of unneccesary equipment for your aircraft (like an MEL, but for part 91 ops)
Establish a maintenance program (I have 4 excel spreadsheets, one of which is 100 pages long, that track every maintenance check, when it was done last AND when it is due next)
Set up a flight time/cycles/expesnes report
I think someone already mentioned the LOA for RVSM.
Chart services
Time swap agreements
You'll need to set up e-mail alerts with the FAA, TSA, Cessna Citation, your local airport, your GPS if you have one and so on.
Ya, you can use Fltplan.com for flight plans, it is great.
For w/b, I set up a simple spreadsheet that calculates the w/b for me. All I have to do is enter the numbers. You aren't required to complete a w/b for any flight. You are required to carry the w/b data for the aircraft.
There are services that can help you with performance, or you can do it yourself.

Good luck. Managing an aircraft for the first time is an excersize of doing the best you can and hoping you don't miss something important.

Oh, almost forgot...you'll need these links:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/forms/
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov...ate_flyers_guide.ctt/private_flyers_guide.pdf

 

[ekuflyer]

You'll need to set up e-mail alerts with the FAA, TSA, Cessna Citation, your local airport, your GPS if you have one and so on.

What do you mean by e-mail alerts?

 

[Fly91]

Doesn't every multi-engine airplane operator have to perform a weight and balance?

91 is not required to ever do a W & B.

135 usually is required, but it depends on the ops specs, some 135 operators don't have to do them either, under certain conditions.

It has nothing to do with how many engines a plane has.

 

[siouxicide]

91 is not required to ever do a W & B.

135 usually is required, but it depends on the ops specs, some 135 operators don't have to do them either, under certain conditions.

It has nothing to do with how many engines a plane has.

Explain that to a fed. Required to have a paper trail part 91? No. Required to ensure you're within the envelope? Yes. I know a guy that told a fed he didn't have to do a W&B because that leg was 91. Wrong answer.
As far as the 135 thing goes, my old j-o-b required only multi-engine aircraft to furnish a copy of the W&B unless it was a 91 leg. The singles were exempt. I'm pretty sure that's a 135 thing, not a special authorization from the FSDO since my higher-ups would likely have never gone through the trouble.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

91 is not required to ever do a W & B.

135 usually is required, but it depends on the ops specs, some 135 operators don't have to do them either, under certain conditions.

It has nothing to do with how many engines a plane has.

91 is never required to do a W&B?

Dont ever get SAFA checked in your G5 or 747!

 

[Choppy]

91 is never required to do a W&B?

Dont ever get SAFA checked in your G5 or 747!

Exactly! It amazes me the number of people who don't even want to do one. It takes 1 minute!

 

[semperfido]

91 is not required to ever do a W & B.

.

Open mouth, insert foot.

 

[XTW]

Open mouth, insert foot.

:erm:

 

[NGT]

1. Hire a Co-Captain with a great attitude and STRONG corporate background!!

2. Do whatever He/She does and act like it makes perfect sense to you.

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 as necessary until YOU have a strong corporate background.

Good Luck!

P.S. Don't burn your resume, you are only about 9 corporate jobs from retirement!

 

[Fly91]

Explain that to a fed. Required to have a paper trail part 91? No. Required to ensure you're within the envelope? Yes. I know a guy that told a fed he didn't have to do a W&B because that leg was 91. Wrong answer.
As far as the 135 thing goes, my old j-o-b required only multi-engine aircraft to furnish a copy of the W&B unless it was a 91 leg. The singles were exempt. I'm pretty sure that's a 135 thing, not a special authorization from the FSDO since my higher-ups would likely have never gone through the trouble.

I've asked FED's before, more than once. They don't know sh1t. You'll get a different answer from each one. I only care about what the POI says, what they say, GOES, for the 135 op they supervise. And FED's have said 91 ops do not require W&B.

I guess if you want to get it in writing you'll have to write to Oklahoma and ask the legal department for an interpretation. I really don't care enough to waste my time with that.

135, I do what the ops specs say.

91, I don't do W&B.

 

[Fly91]

91 is never required to do a W&B?

Dont ever get SAFA checked in your G5 or 747!

You'd be a moron to think a 747 operator skips the W&B forms, its a friggin cargo plane. Its kind of important. Corporate jets, not important unless you're an idiot pilot loading the plane like a retard.

Not one single Global or Gulfstream Part 91 operator I know of does W&B forms each time before departure. Or any other Part 91 operator for that matter in any aircraft.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Not one single Global or Gulfstream Part 91 operator I know of does W&B forms each time before departure. Or any other Part 91 operator for that matter in any aircraft.

The Gulfstream (with an aft galley) is almost impossible to load outside the CG envelope. Frankly, there is little need (Part 91) to prove you're loaded within the CG envelope, because there's a 99.9% probability that you are.

A Legacy, on the other hand, is a different story. If I have lots of folks and fuel in the aux tanks, I'm going to be checking to see where the CG is - Part 91 or 135. This particular airplane will bump the front limit rather easily.

The point is that even though you're not required to do a W&B form under Part 91, you ARE required to assure the airplane is operated within the design CG envelope. You may have a need someday to PROVE you were operating within the envelope. I'd at least have the forms handy. So this is something else for sonic340 to be thinking about with his Ultra operations.

 

[G100driver]

You'd be a moron to think a 747 operator skips the W&B forms, its a friggin cargo plane. Its kind of important. Corporate jets, not important unless you're an idiot pilot loading the plane like a retard.

Not one single Global or Gulfstream Part 91 operator I know of does W&B forms each time before departure. Or any other Part 91 operator for that matter in any aircraft.

When operating within a foreign country I always do a W & B and record the results on my flight log. In the states no.

Like G200 said ... if you get a SAFA check, that will be the 1st thing they ask for. As for the rest of world, I am not sure what they require, but better safe than sorry. An ICAO violation is just the same as an FAA violation.

 

[Freight Dog]

wow - filing a flight plan... there's a concept airlines guys forget about

Now, now Nick... easy on us airline guys. Don't let us being spoiled by having dispatchers file flight plans make you think we don't know how things run.

If I remember correctly, last year you applied to become an airline pilot USAirways... would you appreciate airline pilots cutting you down by saying you don't know diddly squat about airlines, unions, seniority, bidding, flight attendants, large jets, standardization, CRM, ASAP/FSAP, so on and so forth? I didn't think so...

Just take it easy buddy... it's not rocket science. An airline pilot finding that corporate job might be, but the job itself is very far from it.

:beer: