Trans States to Receive 14 New RJ's

[MartinFierro]

It's not as if we're taking routes and cities from AE. AE has NEVER fed STL.

OK, but I am wondering if you can soundly verify or deny a rumor that's been floating around Eagle. Word is that TSA will now be doing some turns into DFW, via another out station. Is this true???? If it is, what do you think about that?

I don't really want to open this argument again. Just interested in the veracity of this rumor, and if it is true, if TSA pilots see this as no harm done against Eagle pilots?

 

[TSA Pilot]

No truth to this rumor whatsoever.....DFW....now that would be crossing the line and I don't think that any TSA pilot in their right mind could bring themselves into that territory that is just unsettling to think about.

TSA Pilot

 

[Uncle Don]

This is borderline SCAB material....

I would hope you don't cross into AA/AE Hubs.....

It’s bad enough that you guys are flying A/C that have circumvented the APA SCOPE completely!

This reverse code sharing has given you a way across the SCOPE LINE....not just one time....BUT now a second time!

The Connection Carriers have used this AX code to bust the union (APA), by getting around the ASM cap, and now the 67, 45+seat jet cap. Where will it stop!??!

In my book there is a name for a person who violates another person agreement, or works to bust that agreement.......

This may be harsh, but you guys and gals over at TSA, CHQ, and CORP better watch out for what your management has you do. There a many lines we cross every day....and there are others that we must never cross at any cost!!! BECAREFULL!!!

 

[airjackson]

Uncle Dim,

Look closely in your "book" and you may find the definition of the word "informed". You may want to become so yourself.

Fear-mongering and loosely using the term "scab" has diminished it's meaning and serves only to further an angry , though misguided, vandetta you apparently hold.

 

[throttlejockey]

PR Newswires - July 19th, 2002

AMERICAN AIRLINES ANNOUNCES THAT CORPORATE AIRLINES WILL REPLACE MAINLINE FLYING USING JETSTREAM 32 AIRCRAFT.

Today, Don Carty of American Airlines has announced that Corporate Airlines will replace American Airlines mainline flying with Jetstream 32 Aircraft.

"We at American Airlines look forward to offering our customers the quality and comfort that can be found in the Jetstream." Said Carty. "We look forward to offering absolutely no inflight service to our customers. With the lack of a onboard lavatory, we will be able to save significant amounts of money by not having to change out the blue water."

When asked how the customers will go to the bathroom on the new Dallas to Tokyo flight, Don Carty explained, "they can go in the air sick bags, and if we run out of those they will just have to hold it."

"But it really wont be much of an issue," Carty explained, "Since the Jetstream 32 can only fly about 250 nm fully loaded, we will give our customers ample opportunity to take a whiz at each of our 20 fuel stops along the way."

When asked about the shrieking noise and vibrations produced by the extremely loud Garrett Engines, Carty explained that all passengers would be signing a waiver of liability for the effects of long term hearing loss. "We are looking into providing our customers with ear plugs with the AA logo on them, but since AA is in a 'cost cutting' mode, we may not be able to bring this enhanced service to our Elite AAdvantage Members for some time," Explained Carty.

Corporate Airlines will begin replacing services offered by the Boeing 777 aircraft as early as August 1, 2002. And a complete replacement of all mainline flying with Jetstream 32 aircraft will be completed by November 2003.

 

[Draginass]

I don't care if it's Stooge Air with Moe, Larry, and Curly flying the airplanes. That flying is on behalf of AE/AA and THAT flying belongs to them contracturally (NOT TSA) and that will be vindicated in court. The "reverse" code share is a blatent, sly and cynical ploy by AMR that TSA (and some of their pilots) are more than happy to be in complicity with. Although not their fault, the TSA pilot group can rationalize it any way they want.

 

[Capt.SpongeBob]

AHHAHAHHAH!!

 

[SF3CAP]

Thanks for your input, Sponge-Boy.

Dragin - I understand why the TSA guys are excited, with the opportunity for their guys to be recalled. They must understand, however, that us Eagle guys will fight this, since contractually we have to go with our aircraft when they are moved off-property. Just one more blatant contract violation to add to the growing list.

This is long from being over.

 

[skippy22]

Just a Rumor

What if Eagle gets rid of ALPA, like they should and then AE aqcuires TSA. MMMM all TSA guys would go to the bottom? Just a rumor, no hard feelings.

 

[Uncle Don]

???

Say whatever you want......BUT.....The fact still is.....

American Connection has busted the APA's SCOPE and contract.

I am informed..... You are now doing EXACTLY what the contract was to prevent and protect!!!

Maybe not SCABs, but you would probably kick your brother if management said you could fly some JETS.

Believe me....the industry is watching all of this!!



P.S. ALPA never "requires" that anybody gets DOH. You think UAL would have given USAir DOH?!!?

 

[ready2push]

Uncle Don and Draginass:
Your positions are pretty clear on this issue. You are both clearly against TSA pilots flying these jets. That's understood, but what do you propose the pilot group at TSA do?

Seriously, that's not a rhetorical question and I'm not flaming. I don't know what the pilot group could do. Certainly they cannot strike. What would you do if you were a pilot at TSA?

You guys talk about how TSA pilots are nearly scabs and imply that they may be treated punitively if there were ever a merger/acquisition, but you don't really offer any options for the average line pilot/furloughee at TSA.

So, my question is what's your advice and what would you do if you were a TSA pilot? Quit? Refuse to fly? It's a serious question and I hope your answer reflects your professionalism and knowledge.

 

[Uncle Don]

You are right. It is a very hard position for the TSA pilots.

However, the TSA CHQ pilots are unionized. At the very least, they can all make calls, write letters and share their opinions with both their LEC's, MEC's and national reps as well as the company. The CHQ MEC has refused to work on two occasions with APA and AE ALPA. The TSA MEC must sit-down and have a very long talk with APA. Pressure from the average pilot will do just that.

Everyone knows how shady the entire AX code share has become. It must stop or it could truly lead to the demise of the industry. The American Connection Carriers have lead to it, now they must work with APA, and ALPA to end it.

TSA pilots take notes from your former A/C owners at AE. They have been pressured by management since OCT 01, to blame APA and the AA pilots that they are completely to blame for the ASM cap. However they stood by APA, even had a unity march with APA at the shareholders meeting in Dallas to show their support for APA and what the SCOPE was trying to do. The AE MEC has worked very closely with APA and has talks and meetings with APA on a weekly bases.

Has any of the American Connection's MEC's ever called APA or Eagle ALPA to talk about any way to apply political pressure, orany pressure on AMR.

ALSO....Striking is not the only way to not flying these A/C. FAA says that ALL equipment MUST working or MEL'd. I am sure the planes that TSA will get are not going to be the newest plane in the fleet. I just hope you guys are not flying broken plans around the skies!!!!

Finally, ALPA national obviously doesn’t support what the Connection carriers are doing. Otherwise they would not allowed the bulletin that is posted on their homepage www.alpa.org or GO DIRECT TO BULLETIN

All I ask is do whats RIGHT! AX code is not anymore ethical than the accounting tactics of ERON and WOLRDCOM!

 

[throttlejockey]

- If the tables were turned, each of the pilot groups would certainly have different positions than they have now.

- Each pilot group must look out for what is best for each pilot group AT THAT TIME. I do not blame Eagle ALPA for taking the position that they do, nor do I blame APA, or the unions at AX.

- Each pilot group should fight as hard as they can for their positions.Not to do so is to fail in their fiduciary responsibilities.

- I doubt any pilot group is willing to go on unemployment on a VOLUNTARY basis. So asking one carriers group to do so is frivilous.

- Most of us regional pilots are hand to mouth anyway, so we have to worry about our bills TODAY, and let the chips fall where they may TOMORROW. Call it mortgaging the future, or short sighted, but that is the reality of the situation.

- Name calling and obscene gestures from one pilot group to the other will not create an atmosphere that is conducive to any type of meaningful discussion and will only make matters worse. If everyone would focus their energies on battling our managements (respectively) I am sure we would get better outcomes.

- Everyone needs to realize that we are only pawns in this game. The Airline business is a dirty rotten business run by cut-throat types in tassle loafers. They have armies of lawyers that will bog down any lawsuit indefinately, and create massive legal bills for those that try to sue. Even though you may have the law on your side, having the law on your side can be very expensive.

-It is up to each pilot group to try and leverage its own position as best as it can. This means each union must fight to maintain the highest pay, the best work rules, and the best benefits it can.

 

[Uncle Don]

Well that is just great.....

SCAB's do what is in the best interest of themselves! Not what is best for the group.

I hope that most the pilots out there don't have the same "Self Help" mentality the you do "ThrottleJockey".

People like you play right into the hands of management.

AX is in direct violation of not 1, not 2, but 3 negotiated items of 2 separate contracts and 2 SCOPE clauses.

How is that in the best interest of ANYONE?!!??

 

[throttlejockey]

Uncle Don:

Either you do not have the intellectual capability or you lack the temperment to have a rational discussion since you have resorted to name-calling. But since we all are anonymous on these message boards, I am sure you will reply with further name-calling.

I admit that I do what is in my self interest. Not doing so would not be human. The failure of marxist-leninist (communist)philosophy proved that humans are primarily motivated by self interest.

If I was in your position, I would fight AMR's outsourcing strategy as hard as possible because it would be in my self interest. Even though you may not be willing to admit it, your doing so today is in your self interest as well.

You will find very few of us who are willing to roll over and go on unemployment just because it suits you. In any case, it is not up to me or you to settle this out, it is up to a bunch of lawyers in $1000 suits that will be paid out of company coffers and union dues.

We did not seek this confrontation, we do not want a confrontation, nor is it our battle to fight. This is between your unions and AMR, not us.

Leave us out, and stop the name-calling or else there will be fewer and fewer of us that will have any more sympathy for you and your position.

 

[rush]

TSA

OK Don you just call me a scab, why? Becouse AMR your company, not mine decides to sell, not transfer jets to us. If you are so high and mighty with you suggestions on what TSA pilots should do, why don't you do it since you work for AMR. I do not work for them you do, if you do not agree with your management you do something about it. Do I like what AMR is doing, hell no, can I do anything about it, no. By the way our MEC and Eagle MEC do talk. I do not recall APA MEC approaching us with any problems.
Do not get me started on the AX issue it stinks, but it was your management idea and your union set precident for it (Alaska). Eagle guys keep saying we fly their routes, I challenge you to name one route we took away from AE. Do not give me the exclusivity exuse, AE isflying for NW and fo U, so apparently it is OK to code share for them but not us.
30% of our pilots are on furlough, I am glad they will be recalled. Now explain to me how is it benefitial for a pilot group to loose their jobs to keep other pilot group flying. Would you give up your job for me or any other pilot?
I do not hold any grudges against other pilot groups, becouse pilots do not decide on the direction their company takes. You apparently do not understand that.

 

[checkessential]

I recently had a "friend" from Chautauqua call to ask how I like my travel benefits. I suppose management promised them a few of our airplanes too.....

 

[fxbat]

- “Name calling and obscene gestures from one pilot group to the other will not create an atmosphere that is conducive to any type of meaningful discussion and will only make matters worse”.

Next time bring a camera, I seriously doubt this accusation of unprofessional behavior.

 

[FlyinBrian]

Eagle guys keep saying we fly their routes, I challenge you to name one route we took away from AE

I don't accuse TSA of stealing AE routes. I accuse them of doing flying that belongs to Eagle per their contract. There is a difference. To be clear, my beef is not with your pilots, and I understand you are doing what you have to do. But I hope you understand that your right to fly the routes you fly died with TWA. It is rightfully Eagle's now. If I were you, I'd do the flying, but I'd feel terrible about it, and I certainly wouldn't have the gall to chew out an Eagle pilot who is upset about it.

The point is, you don't have a choice. As pilots, you have to do the flying or you'll lose your jobs. It's not struck work, so you're not scabs. But I'd also keep my mouth shut because your airline has no right to do the flying, and you are stealing it from your fellow pilots.

 

[rush]

TSA

When AMR purchased TWA it purchased all it's assets and liabilities, that includes contracts with regional carriers.
I do not see an exlusivity clause in your contract, (yes I have read the whole thing, I have a copy). AE has codeshare agreements with U and NW, you think that flying belongs to you or their wholly owned. I agree that your understanding of intent of the language of the CBA gives you the right to make those statements, however if I would be sighning a contract with AMR Especially a long, long,long term one) I would make sure to get it in writing, with all the T crossed and all the I dotted. As it stands your only hope is to fight it in court and put another ALPA carrier out of business. As for the camera comment, I am sorry but I guess our pilots are too busy doing their jobs to carry one and have it ready in the nick of time during taxi, your MEC is aware of the situation and we were told measures will be taken to restore professionalism.