Trans States: 1 Muslim Pilots: 0

[waverider]

I am utterly amazed by what I'm reading here. I’ve never seen so many out of hand, arrogant, dumb a$$ comments as those that have been posted on this thread. Totally fubar.

Like some of the others have stated, they fired the guy due to his misconduct of being in a bar while wearing company dudes, and which was a violation of company policy. Trans States decision to terminate his employment was upheld by the Supreme Court, the nation’s highest tribunal. Race, national origin, religious beliefs, etc, cannot be considered as lawful grounds for termination. That’s the way Constitutional law works in this country. See the Bill of Rights. Misconduct while representing ones employer, however, most certainly is.

The fact that the Supreme Court did not reverse and remand the original ruling by the lower court speaks volumes about the invalidity of the appeal. That at some point he was seen in a public bar while wearing enough of his company uniform as to be identified as a pilot was sufficient in itself; hence the grounds for termination due to his misconduct. The defenses case would not have held up otherwise.

I’m not defending the guy, or condoning his actions; but, I don’t think it is wise to go around lumping EVERYONE who happens to be of a different race, origin, or ethnicity, as some here have been quick to do, into one dubious category or another just because you don't relate well to another’s culture, whichever it maybe. Let's keep the negative judgment in check.

 

[waverider]

I know this guy personally And "back to where he came from" is Northern California. He's a US Citizen Born in the US. He's actually a Fijian Indian. Drinking in Uniform is a whole nother story.

screech, I don't mean to be an a$$ and point this out, but the Supreme Court record states:

Hussein is a man of Indian descent who is a native of the island of Fiji, where
he was raised as a Muslim. He moved to the United States in 1997.​

That would indicate to me that he was not born in the US; though he may well be a US citizen. Correct me if I’m wrong about that.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

All religons breed fanarics you idiot!! Have you seen the "Jesus Camps" for the little christian warriors yet??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PtP

Truly profound.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Everyone think about this for a second:

the down side of RACIAL-BASED-ONLY PROFILILNG.


Just follow me here.

If we profile all Muslims and/or middle-eastern-looking people, what the government effectively tells all Muslims is that they cannot be trusted.
Why does that matter?

Consider this.

Who stopped the UK airline terror plot from being carried through? It was INITIALLY a tip given to British authorities by good members of the Muslim community in the UK. Some of the upstanding good muslims overheard of this UK airline terror plot, and decided to come forward and tip off the authorities.

The authorities then took action, and the entire UK airline terror plot was foiled.

The way I see it, credit goes mostly to those good muslim community members who decided to speak up.


NOW, consider what would happen if there was racial profiling for all Muslims and middle-eastern-looking people.

What that implies is that the government does not trust ANY Muslim anymore.

As such, the good upstanding Muslims will then start to distrust the government, and fear the government/authorities.

Then imagine if they DO hear about some terror plot about to go down... out of fear and lack of trust, they decide to stay quiet and not tell the government... because they feel the government doesn't trust them, and the government treats even the good Muslims as potential terrorists.

So because they remain silent out of fear, the authorities don't get tipped off about the terror attack.

Next thing you know, the terror attack happens.

THis UK terror plot could have EASILY been carried out... since all materials involved were liquids that were allowed on board. Not even profiling would have stopped these men with liquids from getting onboard. Profiling would have had them searched extra special, but the search would have turned negative, since liquids were allowed.

So I guess my point is that among the biggest weapons to fight terrorism is encouraging and supporting good Muslim members of America and Britain to speak up to the authorities if they hear ANY plan or attack about to happen.

By profiling, we will effectively tell all Muslims that they are treated as would-be-terrorists, and that would create fear and lack of trust in government from the good Muslims' viewpoint. Once that happens, we can forget about getting any tips to the authorities regarding potential attacks.


Anyway, I hope you see the point:

The best way to fight Muslim extremists is to have the good Muslims on our side, working for us, to help stop terrorism.... not treat them like they are all potential-terrorists to be.

[See the argument above]




*

Thats a good point. Too bad that didnt work for 9/11, the USS Cole, embassy bombings, the Beirut bombing....how many soldiers got killed there again? Or all the attacks from insurgents in Iraq.

 

[Flyer1015]

Thats a good point. Too bad that didnt work for 9/11, the USS Cole, embassy bombings, the Beirut bombing....how many soldiers got killed there again? Or all the attacks from insurgents in Iraq.

But see, I doubt any American Muslim knew beforehand about 9/11. If they did, they would have spoken up. American Muslims, by far more than any other Muslims in the world, are "westernized" and liberal in that sense.

 

[TWA Dude]

I am utterly amazed by what I'm reading here.

You shouldn't be. Message boards are a virtual reality where people find it amusing to say things just to get others riled up.

 

[John Pennekamp]

This is by far the stupidest thread I've ever seen here. It quite possibly illustrates the need for moderators.

This guy was not fired for being muslim. He was fired for drinking in a bar in uniform on probation. HELLO!!! That's illegal at EVERY US AIRLINE!

That he played the race card totry and get out of trouble is dispicable. He deserved to be fired, and will stay fired, regardless of appeals.

 

[PositionandHold]

Not sure what you are trying to insinuate, but you are correct in your assumption that I am pro-military and anti-muslum. You can say whatever you want about my Pope, I still won't go out in the street in front of my house and burn a pillowsack in the likeness of one of your holy clerics. Why is it so hard for you to admit that this religion breeds fanatics? And please explain, what education gaps on history did I miss that having had such, as you suggest, would "teach me something"?

And yes, I WAS Flame(ing) about the guys' last name being Hussien. Thanks for taking the bait. My co-pilot today wanted to know what I was laughing so hard about. I was laughing at you. Thanks!

I guess it's your constitutional right to be stupid. And you are pretty stupid.

BTW, if you were laughing about that all the way to the cockpit about that... I hope, for your sake, that you were lying.

I am native american -you ass clown.

Yeah, I'm calling B.S. on that one.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

First, it was not the Supreme Court; it was the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals.

He was not fired for drinking "in uniform." He was fired because someone, a TWA guy, alleged that he was drinking in uniform. His testimony conflicts with that of the waitress who was there. Trans States never investigated the truth of the claim before they fired him.

Wearing the plain white shirt and dark pants did not violate company policy. (Mentioned in court record) How many of you have just taken off your bars and wings and gone to a bar??? Were you "in uniform?"

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wearing the plain white shirt and dark pants did not violate company policy. (Mentioned in court record) How many of you have just taken off your bars and wings and gone to a bar??? Were you "in uniform?"

Never. I think it would still be pretty obvious you're a pilot. And you would still be giving all pilots a bad image by doing that. The general public already thinks we're a bunch of drunks.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

You mean to tell me that when the average person sees someone in a white shirt and blue pants, they think: "he must be a pilot?" Respectfully Sir, I think not. When I'm white-over-blue most people think I'm an off duty security guard or cop or something.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Well, the TWA pilot knew somehow. The TWA guy could have been a paying passenger on this guy's flight out the next day. Case closed.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You mean to tell me that when the average person sees someone in a white shirt and blue pants, they think: "he must be a pilot?" Respectfully Sir, I think not. When I'm white-over-blue most people think I'm an off duty security guard or cop or something.

Come on. Who walks around wearing a white shirt with epaulets and black or blue pants in a hotel bar? Only a pilot. Why would an off duty cop or security guard be in a hotel bar? To drink in uniform, even sans pins and stripes, is still a giveaway.

It kills me how most pilots fail to realize that we stand out like a sore thumb. How many times have you been in plainclothes in a bar on an overnight and had the bar tender ask if you were pilots? How many times have you seen the usual RJ crew of two guys and a girl walk in and known they were flightcrew?

 

[TCBKING]

I love it when white trash like you make the "go back to where they came from" comment.

Unless you're a Native Indian, then even your ass came from somewhere else. We're all immigrants to this great nation.

This is one guy, one specific case. The main problem is him being drunk while in his pilots uniform.

Although I dont agree with flyer statement, I dont agree with yours either. I have always been annoyed by this logic. I was born here. I am therefore a native american, just as the indians were before me. Their ancestors came to this continent from Africa (supposedly), a long time ago. So who then, by your rational is a true Native American?

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

And you are calling me stupid? I guess I'll take that "History" class when you agree to take an "English" class. Classic. In the mean time, I guess I'll just continue to profile all Arabs. But since you seem to want to give them the benefit of doubt, why don't you take a stroll though the streets of Iran or Lebanon and see if they don't lump you in with the rest of us infidels instead of "getting to know you" first. Good luck with that poser. By the way, why don't you wait on posting on this message board until you are actually flying an airplane with an N1 guage, or better yet, when you are flying an aircraft in which the environmental system consists of more than merely opening a window.

I guess it's your constitutional right to be stupid. And you are pretty stupid.

BTW, if you were laughing about that all the way to the cockpit about that... I hope, for your sake, that you were lying.



Yeah, I'm calling B.S. on that one.

 

[illtake2]

I would have fired him for just being a Muslim. Lets not take a chance with them at all, too risky. If your car insurance cost can go up for the area you live in, why should we let a religion who blows themself up be in the front.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

You happen to be factually wrong. Pilots might recognize pilots dressed in blue and white (or black, whatever), but the general public doesn't.

The waitress in this case (who works in an airline hotel) testified that he was not wearing [what she recognized as] any part of his pilot's uniform.

Read the EEOC brief, goto pg 4:
www.ca8.uscourts.gov/briefs/05/06/appellant/052010_1br.pdf

Final decision is at:
http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opns/opFrame.html (click on Mohammed v Trans States)

 

[GFunk20]

I would have fired him for just being a Muslim. Lets not take a chance with them at all, too risky. If your car insurance cost can go up for the area you live in, why should we let a religion who blows themself up be in the front.

Good and lets fire guys for being hard core Christians. If the KKK and fanatic white radicals killed innocent people, why have them up front either?

Moron.

 

[GFunk20]

Lets not forget many muslims serve in the U.S. military as well.

Better yet, lets put Muhammad Ali in jail too...he is a dedicated muslim.

Grow up, guys.

 

[illtake2]

Muhammad Ali couldn't fly i don't think he could hold altitude.

 

[FlyBunny]

Hhhhmmmm....

I hate to say it........

EC, the guy who reported all of this is an ex TWA'r. He's one of the one on EVERYBODY'S no-fly list. He was a complete idiot. I heard so many stories (had a few of my own with him unfortunately) that I wouldn't trust his testimony for anything. I had almost forgotten his name. Reading it again made me laugh, until I read the context. I hate to say so, but I would ecommend NO-ONE put any faith in anything he said.

TWA 99-02

I'm just wondering how come he's not at American?
What happened?
Couldn't cut it?

 

[Flyer1015]

Although I dont agree with flyer statement, I dont agree with yours either. I have always been annoyed by this logic. I was born here. I am therefore a native american, just as the indians were before me. Their ancestors came to this continent from Africa (supposedly), a long time ago. So who then, by your rational is a true Native American?

I said Native American Indians were here first, and then the white man came over and pretty much took over what is now America.

You were born here, then you are an American.

I think when most people say Native American, they are implying you are a Native Indian American... like part of the Cherokee, Iroquois, and other tribes.


My main point was unless you are a Native American Indian, then even you immigrated (your family did within the last few decades to the last couple hundred years at most).

So that's why I dont get it when white people tell others to "go back to where they belong," when clearly, the white man himself immigrated here in what is now America.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I'm just wondering how come he's not at American?
What happened?
Couldn't cut it?

EC was a VERY junior Captain at TWA, therefore he was furloughed like the majority of TWA pilots. If you are refering to me, I was a middle seniority F/O, so I was furloughed WAY early.

 

[rickair7777]

Lets not forget many muslims serve in the U.S. military as well.

Better yet, lets put Muhammad Ali in jail too...he is a dedicated muslim.

Grow up, guys.

Yes, we should put him in jail. HE WAS A F&CKING DRAFT DODGER!

If Jimi Hendrix could join the 101st. Airborne Div, you'd think a badass like Ali could do his civic duty as well.

 

[fastback]

I bet this isn't over yet! They'll appeal it and it'll be overturned.

The 8th Circuit finding against a discrimination plaintiff? Might make the history books, but it won't be overturned.

 

[waverider]

First, it was not the Supreme Court; it was the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals.

That is true. I stand corrected.

 

[federico]

İs this dude flying today at some other carrier.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Exactly! What ever happened to not wearing the uniform in a bar. Let alone DRINKING in uniform. This was just asking for disciplinary action.

What about Maverick, Goose, Ice, Slider, etc???




I'm joking of course.

 

[PositionandHold]

Yes, we should put him in jail. HE WAS A F&CKING DRAFT DODGER!

Would you want to fight for a country that enslaved your great grand parents and then oppressed you and your family for generations following? This was the 60's. Think about what it was to be Black in the 60s...In the South.

And he wasn't the only conscientous objector.

Stop being an ignoramus.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

September 21, 2006

8th Circuit Says Trans States Airline
Was Justified In Firing Muslim Pilot


...Hussein saw a replay of the planes hitting the twin towers on TV, raised his beer glass "as in a salute and took a swig." Hussein claimed he had been smiling in the bar because he found out that his wife was pregnant.

Yeah right!! My buddy got a ticket for giving a policeman the finger from his friend's sunroof and in court he said he was pointing to God saying he was number one............ The judge didn't buy it

F'ing loser!