Training Programs

[350DRIVER]

The_Russian,

I can never seem to be amazed with your attempts at justifying this program and comparing it to the likes of the MAPD's of this industry.. Completely a different animal all together, bottom line. You can put lipstick on it, dress it up, etc, etc, but the bottom line is that this program is indeed one of the easiest ways to ruin a career. You are not even flying for a regional yet let alone you continue to make comments about how "successful" you will be in moving on after the regional level where you are not even at now.(go figure) It is very simple my friend, the majority of pilots in this industry understand the ramifications of this practice and most (that I have come across) will not even give GIA grads the time of day or respect since they deserve very little if any at all. It is easy for you to continue to hide behind the screen name but there will be a point and time where you certainly will be called on your past choices. What would happen if GIA didn't charge "first officers" to rent a seat out?? You got it, they would actually have to "hire", "train" at their cost, and "pay" a pilot at respectable wages, not $8.00 per hour.....If you can live with yourself then great, you are the one that must wake up every morning, look in the mirror and accept the choices that you have made, not I or anyone else on this board. Most aviators take pride in knowing that they "paid" dues to get to where they are present day versus handing over a blank check to "rent" a right seat out of a 1900 for 250 hours. The MAPD grads earn everything prior to being hiring, GIA pilots buy the job.



I have stated many times and will continue to post in opposition of this program. Anyone that would be willing to spend close to $19,000 to "rent" a seat out should have their head examined. I can speak from experience regarding a good friend of mine who is on an interview board (not a regional)who will have HR intentionally bring in a few former GIA grads in to interview just to "play" with them prior to laughing them right out the door, I praise his actions and hope that he continues to shoot those down to make this poor career choice... Ask around, surely you can figure out what airline I am referring to my friend. It is very simple and elementary, a good majority of those sitting on interview boards present day got to where they are by blood, sweat, tears, and lot's of sacrifice, not by throwing $19,000 to sit right seat in a 1900.. I love how you continue to drink that GIA kool aid and you are "untouchable" and will not have a problemin trying to advance after the regionals... You may not get the last laugh my friend... Do some make it? Sure.... Others do not however.

Time shall tell but surely better you than I and 99.99999% of pilots who frequent this board.

If I saw you on the ramp in Miami, you wouldn't talk to me like that. You are just a kid. You are only 2 years older than me. You know nothing, and you will never know everything like you think you do already.

I can honestely say that I wouldn't give a rats a$$ if it were on the ramp at MIA or PHX, would not matter.... Wait till you leave GIA and are faced with those that are dead set against this program/practice and will make your life a living hell.. You are not yet there yet so keeping buying into your hopes, dreams, desires, etc, which are far from reality.. Ask the Peanuckle guy who was recently fired due to a run in with a captain who was a former GIA grad.... Life will not be all fun and games once you hit the line at another regional. You don't have the experience, background, etc, to be making comments about "life after GIA" since in reality you are NOT yet at that stage. Come back and report to us in a few years when you have something of substance to post versus highly opinionated posts that have very little bearing on reality.... I don't know anything? **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** for someone who is in his 20's that knows "nothing" I think it is fair to say that I have done quite well for myself thus far. And ya wanna know the best part of it? I never had to "whore" myself out and pay anyone a dime to sit right seat in any aircraft. . . (that should make ya happy)

All regionals that our grads applied to have our pilots working for them. A bunch of our guys just went to XJT. My friend was just hired by ASA last week. PSA just took 20 of our guys. Colgan interviewed 19 last week. You say sh!t and you don't even know the truth. I don't know if anyone got hired by skywest, but I'll put a resume in just to p!ss you off. And when I get hired because of all of the great 121 exp. I have, you'll be the first to hear. And I'm not going to Airlink.

Ok, any of the above mentioned regionals have "agreements" such as the one that is in place with Peanuckle to take you guys? I kind of thought so... Peanuckle is the only regional that has anything in writing to accept someone (GIA grads) at a low time all others must meet the street minimums for that carrier. Surplus has always exceeded demand in this industry and you are looked at as just another "number". If you are not going to Peanuckle and are going elsewhere then you must have went into this "seat renting" program with quite a bit of total time. Sad that you had to p!ss away all this money and not get hired without the help of this program, I laugh when I read these types of stories... How much total time and multi-engine time did you have upon entering this program?

It is an educational/work experience program.

Now that is a quote for the ages... An educational/work experience with paying pax in the back?, nice... If only the paying public knew that this was taking place up front. I truly feel for your captains who have to babysit on top of having to fly the aircraft. Making $8.00 (or around there) to be a first officer?! come on....

Define "earn" with respect to flight training at MAPD as opposed to other schools.

If you knew anything about this program then no explanation would be needed. They are not "renting" any seat out, they are pushed to the limit from day 1 until completion and if they cannot keep up then they are washed out and sent home. It is an insult to the utmost when you even compare this program with yours, not even close... They are "given" nothing, everything is earned... What do you want to know? I would be more than happy to go into detail if you would like.

Reviewing the program at MAPD with a friend that went through the program and looking on the MAPD website, the only difference between GIA and MAPD is an interview. Paying for an interview is not honorable either if we put this in your eyes.

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** they really make you guys drink some good kool aid down there, your marketing department must sell so much propaganda that you are forced to buy into it. Are MAPD grads "renting" a seat out? Whoring themselves out? making $8.00.hr as a first officer? The above was quite comical..

Im sure they are all great pilots. No different from GIA guys. Both schools have guys who can't make it and they are booted. It seems that you are a very one-sided person, who is stubborn with a whole lot of ignorance. Oh, and you also fail to be objective.

I am actually quite objective and understanding when someone brings something of "substance" to debate and discuss but in all of your "supporting" GIA posts and threads I have yet to see anything other than opinion and arrogant comments. When you have the time, experience, knowledge, etc, to debate this issue then I would be more than happy to do it again but beating a dead horse get's very old after you do it enough times.

Report back to us when you are actually out of the nest and flying for another regional.


bobby,

Allow him to get out into the "real world" and then he will see... Sometimes things are better left unsaid.

MAPD is a flight school. Gulfstream is not a flight school. Big difference between the two.

you sure about that?!?! LOL With age comes wisdom so they say, we will see if this holds true with Mr. Russian... He does not have the work experience nor the knowledge of the industry to make any posts of substance.. 100% all opinion which shouldn't surprise anyone on this board that has been in this "game" for any period of time.


3 5 0

 

[Jetter2]

I don't really understand what all the beef is about. From what I have read on the website, they pay X amt of $$, and they get on the flight deck with a "babysitter" if ya wanna call it, and learn to fly that aircraft.

Is this program really THAT hated? I don't see how the information you learn at GIA, couldn't be transitioned over for say, an AE S340F deck.

I guess I don't understand why they are so hated. I'm not a big fan of the MAPD program, but then again, to each his own.

 

[another747]

350



As several others on this board have stated, I also find you to be somewhat rude and offensive. I also, by your tone, highly doubt you fly for any other airline than a commuter, if that. With an attitude like yours, you would make it past NO interview board. I AM on an interview board, and I sure as hell would never hire someone as abrassive as you.

You are also obviously not very observent of past circumstances. Your apparent airline has numerous, and I mean numerous pilots, many captains, who paid for their training through Flight Safety programs, and or Gulfstream style programs. I know this because EVERY airline has many pilots who paid for their "airline" training in someway. The 90's ring any bells for you? Probably not because you are too "young".

If you disagree with PFT, that is your perogative, but stop personally insulting other people, especially with you ignorance in the ways of major 121 carrier recruitment procedures/screening.

Regards,

 

[350DRIVER]

74-

If your opinion was shared by the majority of pilots then all would be well but I disagree and think that your opinions are in the minority. You are entitled to your opinions, beliefs, etc, as the rest of these members are and may I make a suggestion?. Use the "ignore" feature and you won't have to worry about my posts or threads or the many other anti-GIA posts that can be found here. 90's ring a bell? sure they do.


Does EAL/CAL ring a bell? I am sure the guys who crossed the line are "ok" too right? Looking at your profile though would leave no doubt that you came up through the school of hard knocks...... (.)


3 5 0

 

[bobbysamd]

P F T

I don't really understand what all the beef is about. From what I have read on the website, they pay X amt of $$, and they get on the flight deck with a "babysitter" if ya wanna call it, and learn to fly that aircraft.

The point about Gulfstream and other P-F-T airlines is by paying for your training you are buying a job. In so doing, you are circumventing the system. Aviation is a conservative and traditional industry, in which newcomers work their way up the ladder. Those who try to end-run the system with money are resented, especially by those who've clawed their way up. At Gulfstream, you pay money to obtain 250 hours of right-seat 121 time, for which you are paid the $8 per hour. As long as you're paid, that is a job, and paying for your training at Gulfstream is buying a job, albeit temporary employment at best.

MAPD is different. Mesa gives dispensation to those who attend its flight school, but there is still no guaranteed hiring. Same with Comair (Delta Connection Academy).

 

[TopGun-MAV]

one word...TAB!

I went threw training at Tab less then a year ago, now i'm a qualified first officer.
They have financing, and almost everyone qualifies for it. you fly turbine equipment, no cessnas or pipers, no instructing, no fright and have bridge progams with the airlines. it's not that expensive. you will spend less than 100K there, but look at it lilke this. how much does it cost to go to law school?

maverick

 

[TRLpilot]

dang it, just when i was starting to get a good nights sleep again topgun-mav shows up. i thought we were blessed with your departure. oh well, maybe some good laughs are ahead.

yes, take topgun-mavs advice, spend $100k of dad's money and "master" the 1900 in less than a year.

 

[The_Russian]

As several others on this board have stated, I also find you to be somewhat rude and offensive. I also, by your tone, highly doubt you fly for any other airline than a commuter, if that. With an attitude like yours, you would make it past NO interview board. I AM on an interview board, and I sure as hell would never hire someone as abrassive as you.

You are also obviously not very observent of past circumstances. Your apparent airline has numerous, and I mean numerous pilots, many captains, who paid for their training through Flight Safety programs, and or Gulfstream style programs. I know this because EVERY airline has many pilots who paid for their "airline" training in someway. The 90's ring any bells for you? Probably not because you are too "young".

If you disagree with PFT, that is your perogative, but stop personally insulting other people, especially with you ignorance in the ways of major 121 carrier recruitment procedures/screening

Couldn't have said it better myself.

350,

Who cares how you get to an airline. Really. GIA is a great program that is very intense. You think we are playing around? We may be learning 121 life, but at the same time we are flying that aircraft. There is no play. The ones who do play get kicked out. Once they get kicked out its on their 121 record. Those people never get a job in the airline industry. Even Airlink refuses them.

I know very little about MAPD. That does not make me scared of their presence in our industry. YOU ARE AFRAID OF GIA! One, because they are entering the jet regionals and nationals at a rapid pace. Two, because you know nothing about GIA itself or the program. I bet you have never met one person from GIA. As an instructor I know that 99% of all flight schools produce the same type of pilot. If you spent any time instructing you would know that a GIA grad is no different from an MAPD grad. If someone is a bad pilot or lazy or whatever, they will be weeded out of the airlines some way or another.

can never seem to be amazed with your attempts at justifying this program

Just ask the Chief pilots of the airlines our guys go to. They are very satisfied. PSA is especially happy right now.

It is very simple my friend, the majority of pilots in this industry understand the ramifications of this practice and most (that I have come across) will not even give GIA grads the time of day or respect since they deserve very little if any at all.

What? I didn't buy a job. I am in a training program. I never gave the airline a cent of my money. If you want to get technical I paid the Academy money. They happen to be completely separate finacial institutions. Who do you think you are with this respect sh!t? I never asked for respect. He!!, 90% of people in airports don't give any of us pilots respect. And I never demanded respect from the likes of you and your disgruntled personallity.

Most aviators take pride in knowing that they "paid" dues to get to where they are present day versus handing over a blank check to "rent" a right seat out of a 1900 for 250 hours. The MAPD grads earn everything prior to being hiring, GIA pilots buy the job.

You ignorant fcuk I paid my dues. You know nothing about me and you know nothing about dues if you are supposedly in the right seat of a bus at 25! How did you get there so fast? I also nothiced you changed your avitar and put "bus" down below when AW wasn't even hiring. But, this I can only assume. However by your attitude I agree with 747.

Time shall tell but surely better you than I and 99.99999% of pilots who frequent this board.

Want a statistic? Less than 0.00005% of existing pilots visit this board. 99.88583% don't care about this sh!t. Nor do they care about your opinion or mine. Nor do they care to LISTEN TO YOU TALK SH!T TO YOUR FELLOW AVIATORS!

And what makes you think that what I bring to this board is opinion. Why would I waste my time trying to tell people whats going on with GIA if I am going to lie. Are you just telling yourself that I am putting unfactual information on this board to "stir sh!t up". Are you telling yourself that this really isn't happening and there is only one way to learn to fly or get to an airline? Give me a break man. And get a life. You know why you only see me every once in a while? Because I am flying my a$$ off and doing other things than bashing my fellow pilots every single day of my life. How many years have you been on here man. Grow the fcuk up. Become more open minded and maybe you can walk away from FlightInfo for a while and meet some nice people. Like the guys at GIA. Instead of always punching us we could be buying beers for each other. It's people like YOU who don't deserve to be part of this brotherhood of aviators. We are a small group of intelligent people who do the closest thing you can do to a space-walk every single day of our lives and you want to break us all up with your ill-will.

Thanks a lot 350. For your influence and knowledge of what is right.

He does not have the work experience nor the knowledge of the industry to make any posts of substance..

Your right. I have learned nothing from aviation. I never paid my dues with sweat on the ramp or in a spin tumbling to the ground with a student. I never got educated or read an aviation magazine. In fact, I never believed the rumors in the pilot lounge.

Does EAL/CAL ring a bell? I am sure the guys who crossed the line are "ok" too right?

That's a totally different subject. You nor I no anything about the hardships involved with those events. That comment just proves that you have difficulty forming your own opinion, and you only listen to the people around you. Why do I say that? Because you had nothing to do with it unless your father was a Captain at one of those airlines. I don't like the thought of a scab, but it doesn't get in the way of my daily life to the point that I even bring it up in reference to a subject like this.

Bobby,

I appriciate you calm ability to educate. Thank you for making that clarification on MAPD. However, I still do not believe that GIA is PFT. We will let it rest. Nosdrovia Comrade.

dang it, just when i was starting to get a good nights sleep again topgun-mav shows up

Top-Gun Mav is my favorite pilot!

one word...TAB!

 

[bobbysamd]

P F T

one word...TAB!

I went threw training at Tab less then a year ago, now i'm a qualified first officer.
They have financing, and almost everyone qualifies for it. you fly turbine equipment, no cessnas or pipers, no instructing, no fright and have bridge progams with the airlines. it's not that expensive. you will spend less than 100K there, but look at it lilke this. how much does it cost to go to law school?

maverick

(emphasis added)

This post says a lot more than it might appear on first reading. It has meaning on several levels.

It is a pro-P-F-T post and an anti-P-F-T post. Pro P-F-T because it proves that anyone - even a cretin like him - can become a "line" "pilot" if he/she has enough money. It is anti P-F-T for the same reason. Think about it.

"Mav" has broken his promise at least twice that he would no longer post. And that's what P-F-T is all about - broken promises. Go read some of the recent RAA posts to learn more about broken P-F-T promises.

Have another glass, "Mav."

 

[bobbysamd]

I appriciate you calm ability to educate. Thank you for making that clarification on MAPD. However, I still do not believe that GIA is PFT. We will let it rest. Nosdrovia Comrade.

Dosvedanya (sic). I'll show you my Poljot(s) if you show me yours.

Top-Gun Mav is my favorite pilot!

Mine, too. TABExpress F/O is my second-favorite.

 

[paid4training]

My parents are going to pay $40k for my college. Now I can spend ALL of that at ATP, or I can spend all of that on college.

My plan:
Finish up HS this spring
Summer of 05: Start taking classes at Jr. College, get that much farther ahead. Go to Summer Semester, Fall, Spring, and Summer semester, so by fall of 06' I got my 2 years of Jr. College out of the way.

Join up with ATP and (hopefully, hopefully!!) land a job with them, so I can build time.

If I can get on with some regional carrier, thad' just seal the deal! Regional Pilots seem to average about two weeks off a month. With a flight line time of 72hrs, that should leave time for me to squeeze in time for the last two years of my degree.

IF i had to do it all over again I would do the following:
Take the summer off or get a sh!t job making you want to go to school...you will and can get burned out going to school!!!
fall04--start the basic course @ juco and get your pvt/inst part61
sprng05--continue to get the basic and fly as much as possible
fall05--apply to erau or simular school...you have a pvt/inst...get remaining of ratings at erau or some school simular. Fly enjoy classes and chase women...get some life experience(not too much don't mess up the chances you have)...get your cfi sophmore/junior year...cfi your senior year...build hours and experience!!!

this is just an view and a wish of mine if I had to do it all over again
fall04--

 

[minitour]

So, let me see if I understand this PFT thing (in retail terms).

Say I want to be a District Manager for X company...but I have to have 5 years experience to be a District Manager for X company...

Here comes Y company that says, "Hey, for $5,000 you can be a District Manager for our company."

So, I pay Y company $5,000 and be a District Manager for 5 years...

...so instead of Y company paying ME $40-$50K a year....I payed THEM $5,000??


If I've got it right, then why are some people for it?

If I've got it wrong, someone please use the scenario above and put it in my terms...thanks...

A Very Confused
-mini

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Mav, I could buy nearly 700 multi hours for that $100k... I think many regionals would drool over someone with 700 multi. He!!, at $100k I would go out and buy my own multi and fly it into the ground (I would either be sleeping, working, or logging multi time as long as the aircraft is airworthy).

Let me try to explain why pilots that worked their way up hate PFT. If you want to pay for your ratings, fine (noone expect HS students to walk into an engineering firm and have them pay for the engineering degree - same here). But, paying for your airline job undermines those of us who want to earn money and work out way up. You are essentially GIVING away your time and undermining my ability to find work (and command a decent wage).

So if you are screwing me, it is perfectly legitimate to f*ck with you back. And the guys on hireing boards know this. Have fun on interviews (if you get that far)!

Is it wierd that there aren't alot of guys crowing about how the PFT work got them to Jet Blue/Southwest/ect? Think about it for a minute (but don't think too long, that B1900 doesn't master itself!).

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

So, let me see if I understand this PFT thing (in retail terms).

Say I want to be a District Manager for X company...but I have to have 5 years experience to be a District Manager for X company...

Here comes Y company that says, "Hey, for $5,000 you can be a District Manager for our company."

So, I pay Y company $5,000 and be a District Manager for 5 years...

...so instead of Y company paying ME $40-$50K a year....I payed THEM $5,000??


If I've got it right, then why are some people for it?

If I've got it wrong, someone please use the scenario above and put it in my terms...thanks...

A Very Confused
-mini

There is a trick to PFT tho. Company Z offers the ability to get to the DM position, but you need to work for Company U for 3 years before you get hired on to Z (and then earn 5 years of experience). Company U pays the minumum wage and Z isn't much better.

So if all goes according to plan, you shave off 3 years of work at minumum wage and move straight to the endgame for $5k. Plus you move ahead 3 years in your professional track (and thus have a better lifestyle at the end). And say if it all works out, those 3 professional years are worth $200k apiece at company X (after raises and whatnot). So it would net you $595k to pay that $5k.

It's how PFT is supposed to work. Some people get suckered in by the idea and don't see the downsides (if others take offence at you shortcutting and smack you down).

 

[Jetter2]

I'm definatly going to ATP, I just didn't know what everyone had against GIA.