Training Compensation Comparison

[Peter_Griffin]

OK -- maybe this was answered somewhere else before but I am curious specifically about the training contracts, indoc and recurrent training compensation. As I am looking at other jobs, this is an important issue for me...

I work for flex, so in fairness let me give you our run down for an example of what I am looking for...

Flex has 2 year training contract, but I have heard from others that it is largely un-enforceable. But I also have heard they will send a collection agency to hassle you and report you as a bad debt write off which could potentially be pretty bad I guess.

If you quit they also make you pay $600 for your fancy leather jacket... I think otherwise the uniforms are free -- I really don't remember -- it's been a few years since I was hired ...

During intial training, regardless of your gateway, the hotel tab is picked up, you receive roughly $2500/month thru IOE (so about 2 months) and receive per diem 24/7. We are also paying 4K for gateway relocations to new hires. I think flex is actaully pretty good to new hires during training.

Recurrents and additional types are a different story.

For pilots NOT in Dallas gateway they get the hotel paid for, they get a travel day on either side they are paid for at 100% of day rate, plus perdiem 24/7.

Dallas based guys get an ops day the day before but do not get paid for it, get no hotel, no per diem. I also hear almost everyone from DFW gets scheduled to start their next rotation 12 hours after training ends on short recurrents to squeeze in a 6 day line. You do get paid for your training day at the full day rate.

Also, if because of the way your training falls they cannot get you a full 17 days you are only paid for what you work even if you asked for the full 17. I call it the myth of the guarantee. Same for vacation months too by the way...

What's up at the other fracs? Thanks for your feedback.

 

[bluepost]

This is the TA since it looks like it will pass and will be in effect Nov 21st....


NJ will pay $3857 per month to a new hire from day one until and IF he or she elects to bid a 7 and 7 line which would take about 3 months at which time the pay would drop to $3250 base on the 7and7.

New hires will be paid to move to a domicile ASSIGNED to them...will they let you choose? Nobody knows, but they have the right to assign the domicile (TEB, PBI, LAX, DAL, CMH). Again this is new to the TA.

The $3857 applies for 18 reserve days a month and during training...not sure if new hires will get ext day pay for days over 18 in initial training.

Hotel is paid for and I'm pretty sure per diem, but not 100% sure. Insurance effective right away, 401k after 3 months I think.

No training contract and no seatlock for first officers bidding to captain (not that upgrades will be less then 3 years).

Pay is either 39k base (guessing about 43k or so with hourly OT and holiday pay) for 7and7 OR $46,286 (lets say 50ish with OT and holiday pay) for the 18 day reserve schedule (see GETTING THE SHAFT in Websters). The reserve is 7 days max with min 4 days off or 3 days off for 6 days or less. Anything over 18 days is voluntary and will pay $321 a day.

Per Diem is $1.70 CONUS, $2.50 everywhere else. We don't pay anything for crewfood, I average buying one meal every 2 days on the road out of my own pocket.

Problem is UPGRADES WILL BE AT LEAST 2.5 YEARS IF NOT 4 YEARS. 4th year base FO pay 45k for 7and7, 53.5k reserve schedule...unless you can hold FO in the 2000ex or G4 or BBJ then you make between 50k and 60something base 7and7.


Almost forgot you asked about recurrent pay...same as your regular line pay...if you have over a 12 hour duty day you get hourly OT in FSI also..only one or two sim slots have days that long. No crew food in FSI...maybe next contract

If you bid a new AC you go on the reserve schedule ($1500 more per month) and stay on that until you can bid 7and7 again once you are released off IOE.

You can switch from the reserve to 7and7 quarterly.

Max crew rot is 6 hours with no plane or full crew...if they don't send you to the hotel at 6 hours you get hourly OT from that point on. They can't make you leave the hotel if they don't have "a plan" for an airplane AND crew within 6 hours, but your duty clock is running at the hotel just as if you were flying or at the FBO.

This crew rot thing happend for about 3 months...our union stopped it and got us settlement pay of 2k-6k per pilot. You CAN be "hot spare" if you have a good airplane and a full crew for a full 14 hours.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Bluepost,

You said first year FO pay is $46,286 on the reserve and 4th yr FO pay is $53,000 on reserve? So the pay goes up $7k in 4 yrs?? Thats not all that great even though it starts out fair.

 

[bluepost]

"not great"? I say it flat out sucks. One of the sht sandwiches buried not so deeply in this TA....just putting out the facts for comparisons sake which is what was asked for.

Now what will happen in 4 years? Will there be 4 year captains? Will a 4 year FO be right seat in the G4, EX or BBJ...I would think he would be close but again who knows...even then he is only making 50-60 on the EX/G4 and 60-66 on the BBJ base as an FO.

Would anyone stay on the reserve to make 8K a year flying 18 days on call when they could make 3k extending one day a month and fly 15-16 days a month average NOT on call?

 

[h25b]

The company is most likely going to staff very lightly on the Capt. side of things since the got away with having inexpensive F.O.'s.